Real drummer advice...

[PT76]

I'm a guitar player who after playing for 12 years and being totally in love with recording has finally gotten around to setting up a home studio. Right now I'm at a crossroads and I'm looking for advice from my fellow musicians; I don't want to record my music with guitars, a bass and a click track, I'd like to add some percussion to it as well to give it some more life and to make it more complete. I cannot record a drummer in my studio so I got myself a drum machine and am all juiced up and excited by it! My problem is that I am NOT a drummer by a long shot and though I totally love and respect the instrument, I am looking for advice so I can learn how to program my drum tracks so they sound like a drummer would actually play (as in what I program being humanly possible).

Should I look into drum books, or even go so far as to take drum lessons myself? Should I look for drummers in my area and just ask for their help/advise?

In all the bands I've been in, the ability of the drummer has been paramount to my staying in the band. If he didn't have the chops and wouldn't/couldn't improve I was outta there. Now, I know I have a project studio and I'm not about to sell my music any time soon, but for my own enjoyment I'd like to have semi-real drumming going on and not just a bunch of noise (insane, impossible rolls, for example). I know I'm not about to become a drummer myself and I won't be able to write drum parts that will wow my friends D) without having years of lessons and playing under my belt, but to learn the basic, the theory of what a drummer should do for the music (something I've never worried or even thought about before, I always left that to the drummer in my bands), stuff like that....BTW, this isn't about time-keeping and knowing how to count music, I have that side covered, this is about approching the instrument as a musician and how best to 'play' it, even though I'll just be programming a drum machine.

What should I do?

Thanks,

Phil

PS, sorry if this was a little long...

 

[tmix]

Phil,
I am impressed that you have considered this as much as you have.
Many folk just grab a machine or loop program and start spewing out the most ridiculous drum parts I have ever heard.

If you have a drummer friend, ask how he might play something. Or do some colaborations with a drummer. I am a recording drummer myself. Ive played drums for about 15 years or so.

The single most thing that screams "drum machine" to me is overly busy drums.Unless you are into Techno, or machine gun drums, the key is simplicity. Think about how a drummer plays. Most drummers only have 2 arms, so when you start your tom fills, dont be playing 16th note patterns on your hi-hat or ride cymbal. Belive me when I say simpler rudiments will capture a groove better that freight train drums.
Most drum machines can't handle good snare drum rolls either. It sounds like the afore mention machine gun.Keep it to single hits and flams maybe 3 hit lead ins to a tom fill. Keep them guessing as to whether it is real or memorex.

Any question you may have that I can specifically answer, let me know, I'll do my best.

Tom
tom@tmixstudio.com

 

[LeksBD]

Hey, As impressed (if not more) with the consideration and thought put into this.

The thing with drum machines is that they lack the expression and dynamics that you can achieve if you were to use a live drummer.

Ok, so you can alter the volume of each sample triggered, but you can't alter things like, where on the drum is hit etc etc...

I'd would (If I wasn't going to use an acoustic kit) of invested in a set of V-Drum's or a DTXpress maybe. Simply because they can be whacked in on one channel, and (especially on the V-Drums) there is more room/functionalilty for expression and dynamics.


Sorry, I just realised, none of this is relevant!

Apologies!

 

[designbyt]

How many drummers does it take to change a light bulb?

None. They have a machine to do that!

BADA-BUMP!..... I love that joke.

Yes, overly busy drums, impossible fills and lack of dynamics are all dead give aways that you are using a drum machine. I don't know what you have, but some machines have dyanmic control, so that will offer a more realistic sound.

My advice would be this. Listen to a cd of your favorite rock band who has a compitent, yet simple drummer. Something that after a few listens, you can try to mimmick the beat. A good one would be Appetite for Destruction by Guns N Roses. Simple, repetative, easy-to-learn beats. Hell, just to get the jist of things, you might want to try AC/DC (pick any song, they're all the same). That will give you a good strong feel for the basics. Then once you have that down, move up to a more complicated drummer to mimmick.

That's my advice. That's how I learned to play. Eighteen years later.... so far, so good. Good luck.

 

[Rod Gervais]

I agree this is a very thoughtful post.

All good advice you've been given here - keep it simple (for the most part) always works. Drums are like guitars in the sense that sometimes more is less - hell - BB King can say more with one note than most guitarists can with a whole solo - great drummers can do the same thing.

A few other things that work - make certain that the bass drum is working with the Bass - don't have it off doing it's own thing -

Listen carefully to what the drummer is doing in your genre...... try to develope a feel for the way a drummer lets a beat slide for a split second - how he feels the groove - how he works around and with what's happening in the music.

If you can capture that - it will go a long way towards feeling less mechanical.

Good luck,

Rod

 

[PT76]

Some truely great advice in this thread, thanks so much!!

I'm looking at a couple of different possibilities after having read your responses and spoken with a drummer friend of mine. The first is to use my drum machine, which has numerous features to attain a more human feeling, like touch sensitive pads, a groove and feel function which randomizes the hits on whichever drum I choose so it will have imperfect strikes...all in all it's rather flexable, I just have to learn how to use it fully. The second option, and the one I'm truely leaning towards, is to buy a set of electronic drums a la Hart. I cannot have acoustic drums no matter how much I'd rather have them due to noise and space considerations, so the electric kit will serve my purposes just fine. I'd like to learn how to drum too, always having been infatuated by just how cool they are (who hasn't? ).

It would be more musical and natural sounding and it would be a hell of a lot fun!

Thanks again for your advise,

Phil

 

[Capt Dunsel]

More input, for what it's worth...


If you are going to stick with the drum machine for a while, here's a small tip: To get more of a 'pulse' in the beat, don't have the hi-hat play every hit at the same level. For example, if you are programming a 'straight 8th's' rock beat, have the machine hit the downbeats louder than the upbeats. Most programmers (and some live drummers) I know don't do this, and the track ends up sounding really mechanical.

Another tip: When you program your tom fills, start the fill at a somewhat lower level, crescendo in the middle of the fill, then drop back off again towards the end. It doesn't have to be a 'night and day' level change, but a small one will contribute a lot to giving the track a human feel.

With regards to electronic drums, I've been using a Roland kit for about 4 years now. Works like a champ! The newest modules (TD-6, TD-8, TD-10) have the BEST samples - really natural sounding (for best results, record in stereo - the ambience effects work better). For an economical setup, you may want to look at a Pintech Spirit kit with a Roland TD-6 module.

$0.02 ($0.03 adjusted for inflation)

 

[raindogred]

mate I was in the same boat as you. been playing guitar/bass/keyboard/harmonica (you name it) since the early 80s and got into the home recording thing a few years ago. realised immediately the same dilema . tried programming/loops but none if it really suited the style of music I do which is pretty much folky-bluesy-roots type stuff. Finally about 6 months ago i went out and got a drum kit and started getting lessons, bought a bunch of mics, pulled out a lot of hair. Immediately noticed that my recordings have the sound I have been aiming for-albeit pretty much out of time . The absolute hardest thing for me to do is to keep perfect timing. But am getting better by the week. I find that now when I do some drum programming, even after only playing drums for 6 months or so I have such a better feel for it than before and have a heap more beats in my mind that I can pretty much work out anywhere any time (you know sitting in an armchair in front of the TV, or sitting in traffic tapping on the steering wheel). If you do go down this road I swear you won,t be hanging around the guitar part of the forum-way more fun lurking around here..very addictive instrument
cheers