Re-work of a 1995 original tune

MC Gitarz

MC Gitarz

New member
http://www.nowhereradio.com/MCGitarz
Album page - "Songs From the Attic" - first song, called NFAL-Take One

Hi folks!
Here's a simple little song I plan to use as my CD opening tune. It's actually the first tune I ever wrote. It was recorded on the first CD my band released. At that time the tune was all electric country with me playing some of the worst guitar I've ever heard! This version is entirely different. The subject is, of course, my spouse - best friend and life partner. (She lets me buy gear!!)
I'm using a new mic - AudioTechnica AT33 small condenser on the left guitar and mandolin. The Behringer large condenser is used for the tambourine and the right-channel 'jangly' guitar (aimed toward the headstock to cut all of the bottom). The B2 is also my only vocal mic. For the vocals I tried some new compression settings I read about in an owners manual for some PreSonus gear. Let me know what you think/hear, if you please. The mando will be re-tracked because I'm not at all happy with the performance - you can tell I'm a beginner on this track but at least the signal is there in the mix for listening and balancing.
Thanks in advance!!
~Milan
 
Direct Link:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3178&alid=735

What a great opening for the album!
Your vocal really fits nicely in the mix. I don't think I agree with you on the mando performance..........I rather like it! Just cause it's a first take (if thats the case) doesn't make it bad
:D
The bass fits in real nice on this mix. It drives the song just the way it should.
Congrats, MC. This is SO good:D :D

Dan
 
MC Gitarz

I smell the magic word,keeper on this one!

Everything sounds very smooth and balanced in frequency and in dynamics.

Excellent job!

If you are still prepared to do anything further with this track, I would add some addition harmony vocals in the chorus up high and in counter harmony to what is there already. Otherwise, I would change a thing!

Cheers! :)
 
wow!

great mix, and the tones on the gtrs are "in the pocket"

that intro left acu. is sweet!

looking for a crit?

the only thing I can come up with: don't come in full band at the first chours (at 0:34) try waiting (don't know where)

my thinking is that it sounds so sweet (vox and gtrs), I'm wanting it to linger a bit longer

enjoyed
 
it sounds really good MC.......i see you're planning on retracking the mando...i like what i hear on it now.....the tone is very nice.....what kind of mando?........i wish i still had mine, had to trade it to get a bass.........i want to get another one sometime though..........cool stuff.....good song
 
Thank y'all!

Thanks, folks!! I really appreciate all the more-than-kind comments. But credit has to be given where credit is due. All the tools and techniques I've been using I learned from y'all! If you listen to the first few tunes I posted and then listen to the last couple of tunes anyone can hear the difference. Musical evolution courtesy of the fine folks on the HomeRec/BBS - many, many thanks to you all!
~Milan

Hevy - Thanks, Dan! I appreciate the listen and your remarks. The compression setting is supposed to put your vocals right on top and I think it worked. The mandolin playing is coming along - I'm not disappointed - but I read an article with Ricky Skaggs who said "if you want to play the mandolin you have to listen to Bill Monroe." And I do - every day. I'm not a big fan of those 'high lonesome' vocals but his mando pickin' is unreal. Very melodic with little hints of blues - super cool. This tune has a ton of places for tremolo, too, but that's by far my weakest technique - still working!! Thanks again!!

Ghost - Being on a 'keeper" list is a cool thing for me! Thanks!! I'll mess around with the harmonies a little more this week but there are a couple limitations - (a) I didn't hear any counter-melodic stuff while I was tracking, I'll have a go at it and let you know what I come up with (b) the key of G puts my high harmony voice right at the breaking point of my falsetto range so I have to go back and forth - yuk. Now if you happen to know some 'sweet young thang' with a voice like Allison Krause........oh never mind..............Thanks again for the listen!!

Elephant - Thank you, sir! My first draft of this tune had the solo guitar and voice through the first chorus. But then the harmonies came in on the second verse and the shock value wasn't as strong to me. And there's another effect, too - the folks who bought the original CD are expecting this to sound more like the original - (I'm wishfully thinking that a few of them will buy this) - hopefully they'll get a little pleasant surprise! Thans again for the crit, and the comments!!

Powderfinger - Thanks for the comments!! If you read my response to Hevy above you'll see what I mean about the mando playing. Right now I still sound like a guitar player playing a madolin - need some more fluid melodic stuff - I'll get there. The mando is a Kentucky right out of the box from Mus Friend - about $400 - wife bought it for me. Nice little F5 clone made from solid wood. I'll be looking for a great one next year - after we buy this house over here (sheeesh, it's expensive here) I'll put a couple grand into a nice one - I didn't know I'd enjoy playing it so much!
 
The very first notes of the mandolin as you bring it in ... in the intro ... are done very, very sweetly with great sensitivity.

The lead vocal is great, the harmonies are excellent. You can develop more headroom for the vocal ... in general ... by lowering all the instruments just a touch, in the chorus the backing vocals get swallowed a bit.

So with more headroom for the lead vocal, you will then have plenty of room underneath the lead vocal, to firmly present those dynamite backing vocals. You'll have more flexibility to place them also.

Tambourine is touch to loud, but it gets less later ... and I'd pan it a bit further away from center, just over to that next 'area' for it to fit within. The tamb is the most sonically aggressive instrument in the entire mix, so great taste is called for when the vocal is being presented.

You might experiment with the tamb ... literally panning the tambourine away from center during the mixdown, as if the tamb player is moving across he stage, and reduce the volume while you do that.

I've noticed of course ... as we move instruments further out into the stereo field they take on more of their own character and become more 'apparent' in the mix, it seems as though they get louder.

This is one of your best lead vox I've heard, and it's the sincerity that you sing with that is the ticket. Good crisp ending. Mando is coming along GREAT !
 
Thanks, Pat!

Ich bedanke mich! I'll have a go at your recommendation of lowering the instruments a tad - this was actually quite hard to mix because with the new compression setting the vocals really do sit on top - and the lead has the edge I've been trying to get for years - but they sit so much on top that bringing the instruments up to a level that makes them sound like they're part of the same band, will actually overpower the mix. It's odd - playing with these 'altered' signals is a matter of fine degrees. And so it is, also, with the tambourine. I always track it by itself so I can control it - I used to bounce it in with the drums but it was too tricky. I'll try spreading it a little more but actually I did exactly what you described during mixdown - moved it around until I could find the space. Even though the guitars appear to be wide in the mix, they're really not - they're not even at 50% as I recall. With the harmonies at 26% there's a little room to maneuver so I'll give it a try. Film at eleven!! And as always, thanks for the upbeat critique!! Much obliged, my friend.
~Milan
 
I Don't Know Much About This Type Of Music

But I found the lyrics very heartfelt and real, that makes a song a hit IMHO. The vocals, acoustic and mando(? isn't that a fruit?) sounded just perfect in the song. Out of my personal taste here but enjoyed the song very much nonetheless. Thanks for posting.
 
MC Gitarz said:
(She lets me buy gear!!)
Click to expand...

Keep her....so cool.... :D

Good song man....
Bass could be better defined and the kick and snare could come up....vox down a bit (just a little man...) but overall it's a really good mix...
great perfomance and super song...

Cool!

Joe
 
Excellent job Milan. Nicely done folk style tune. Everything sounds very crisp and well defined.

What i'm finding especially well done is the vox. As I move around the room or get up close they seem to hold exactly the right spot and clarity in the mix.

They're not overly loudly mixed but i can understand them clearly which is very rare for me because usually i have a very hard time distinguishing lyrics.

Great job M~
 
I liked the song. Once that first chorus kicks in it's a real nice feel. Real sweet harmonies. Dang they were tight. Nice guitar and mandolin sounds. Nice mando part too - good soloing. It had a Peter, Paul, & Mary feel to it.

You and I have similar issues with the vox. There's just a little bit of midrange clarity lacking. They sould a little muffled.

Some little click at 2:18 on the word "never." I think it's on a vocal track.

Trip continues to tap his toe....
 
That's good folk! Very nice vox, guitar and mando work! Harmonies are sweet. It's a nice mix too. I agree with Khomp and Trip on the vocals. Like Khomp said, you can hear them nice even though they seem set back, which might be due to what Trip said - they lack a little mid-range clarity. I am not sure there.

Great work Milan. This is only the second tune I have heard of yours and the first with vox. Keep it up!
 
I really appreciate all of these comments – I’m taking notes and fiddling around with ideas and suggestions. Lots of fun for me!!

Ismellelephant – Nice compliment –thanks!! I’ve found myself listening way out of the box since I’ve been around these folks. Lots of styles but at the bottom of them all lie some undeniably excellent musicians. My tastes have been turning eclectic. Oh, and BTW, the mango is the fruit without strings – I think it has valves – Anyway – thanks again for the listen and your comments!!

Joro – Thanks, Joe! So should I compress the old basso profundo? Or do you think I can make it punchier with EQ? Vox noted. And thanks again for the compliments!!

Khompewtur – Thanks for the listen and your compliments! I really appreciate your time spent analyzing the sound. I’m thinking it’s all in the compression because that’s the only thing I changed. Here are the settings - Threshold: -3.3db / Ratio 2.8:1 / Attack 0.002ms / release 38ms. Does any of that look outrageously different in any way? I’ll be experimenting with some re-tracking of other vocals next weekend and I’m going to try that setting again.

Triple M – Thanks for the toe tapping!! I consider that ‘mission accomplished!’ I think you’re bang on with the vocal issue – I’ve always had to boost the mids when I was singing live- and I always had a monitor stuck in my face to help with the pitchiness business. Now I reach right for the EQ knob on mixdown and add 2db at 3Khz – almost like a habit. I could not hear that click – I’ll isolate the tracks later to see where it is – the picks on the mando are a real problem for me so it could be there.


Skids – Thank you (he says with a most humble bow)! – I’ll play around with the vox some more next weekend – there’s just not enough time for me to get into a project during the week. The midrange clarity thing could be right on target – since (from my understanding) the sound waves seem less directional as they get longer. Highs seem to shoot straight out from the speaker or horn but bass notes just float all over the room. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm. But I really appreciate your time and ears!!


Thanks again y’all!!
 
I loved "Amanda". I wish this tune had the fidelity of "Amanda". The verb on the mando was great in Amanda. I like your stuff... NEED MORE BANJO!!!
 
HEY MIXMKR!

Where have you been? I need more autobahn cruisin' musik!!

Thanks for listening!! And I'll be re-working the mando part (I need to shy away from so many Scruggs-runs). Are you saying more reverb?? Can do - I think a taste is in order. 'Amanda' has more highs, too. I'll get busy on it if you can crank me some more electro-mondo-banjo tunage!!
~M
 
sounds good.. normally I would want the drums louder or something, but for this style they work well in the back.. I think it's mixed pretty good for the style.. nice vocal harmonies.. something about the vocal sound could be cleaner, but I'm not sure what it is.. nice job..
 
That B2 actually sounds good on you. I didn't care much for it on my voice. But I understood a little less about mic placement when I had mine.

This sounds terrific. I actually would like to hear the percussion a bit more. Your timing on the mando and the acoustics is tight enough, but personally I'd like more from the drum. But I'm sure it's a genre thing.

Guitar sounds really nice too, as does the mando.

Good job!

Tom
 
B.Sabbath - Thanks for the listen! Sure wish you could put your finger on that 'something' in the vocals!! I'd love to be able to dial that in and get them consistent. I just remarked to DafDuc that my voice lacks 'color' so I have to add crap to it. There's a formula there somewhere - gotta find it. I'll talk about my percussion business in the next reply to......

Sluice - Thanks for the ears, Tom! Regarding the percussion - I really only have it there to give the bass a 'click' (like an upright) and the snare just puts the backbeats in to get the toes tapping. I try to mix them almost subliminally on acoustic mixes because I probably wouldn't play these tunes live with a drummer. I've raised them in previous mixes but never liked the monotony of that 'boom-chuck' over and over. Thanks for the nice comments - very encouraging!! About the B2 - I certainly have heard a lot of bashing about that mic (and B-gear in general) but I really don't have an issue with it. And I tend to buy things as cheap as I can to play around with them. My first acoustic guitar was a $19.95 Sears Silvertone. Once I started getting serious about playing I bought a decent axe - same with the mic. I've been researching the Neumann's but I think it'll be a l-o-n-g time until I can drop a couple grand into a mic. Somewhere in the middle I'll find a decent mic - until then I make do with what I got.

Latest developments - I took Studioviols' advice and pushed the tambourine a little to the left and dropped the level - much improved - more subliminal. I also decreased the level of the guitars and, indeed, the harmonies popped up without any added fader push - but the low harmony rang through in all of it's FLAT grandeur - SHIT! But you know, I can fix that. So still a good call.

Then I tried taking Joro's advice of adding definition to the bass - I added some compression - I started to like it in the cans. The 'click' started sounding like an upright bass and the sustain was so minimal that the upright bass illusion was pretty impressive. Until I played it on the monitors - pump city! The damned compressor was pumping like a heart ventilator!! So that's why I didn't post it up. It was getting late and I was getting frustrated so I'll fight round three next weekend. Nonetheless the advice was spot-on and the proof is in the sound - you'll just have to hang loose for a listen. (Yeah, I know, you're gonna pine and whine until I get the damned thing posted!!) (Kidding folks)

Thanks again y'all!!
~Milan
 
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