Re: RAM...Single stick or two?

J

Julia

New member
Re: RAM...Single stick or two?

Hi, Friends.

Running an Abit NF7-S mobo with an Athlon XP 2500+ Barton, would I be best off using a single stick of 512mb DDR400 (PC3200), or 2x256 of the same?

I'm buying Kingston Value Series RAM, but it's more expensive, so I want to make sure I'm doing the best set-up for this board. I'm reading about the dual business, and this board being capable, but I'm also reading that the board will take 3GB of DDR333 RAM max, and 2GB of DDR400 RAM, and there are only 3 slots available, so I thought I'd be better off starting with the single slot, since 512 is all I can afford right now.

Thoughts or guidance to offer?

Thanks.

Julia
 
Dual channel is a nice feature but an AMD based computer hardly benefits from it. An AMD cpu is not as hungry for memory bandwidth as a Pentium 4. IMHO starting out with a single stick will work fine.
 
You can suffer along for now if that's all you can afford, but I would definitely recommend going dual-channel as soon as possible.

The major problem is not fundamental bandwidth limitations of the Athlon XP itself, but that Nvidia just isn't as good at memory controller implementation as they should be. VIA's single-channel controllers are much better than an NForce2 in single-channel mode, though there are a myriad of other reasons to avoid VIA chipsets for DAWs.
 
Okay, thanks.

So I bought a single stick of 512mb DDR400. There are only three dimms on the NF7-S motherboard. (Reminder, I have bought the 2500+ Barton processor.)

If I can grab up another 512mb of the same ram...or when I can...is there something I need to do to enable dual channel? Or do I simply place the second dimm in the slot beside the first one and it will automatically register as dual channel?

Thank you very much.

Julia
 
Marquis said:
You can suffer along for now if that's all you can afford, but I would definitely recommend going dual-channel as soon as possible.

The major problem is not fundamental bandwidth limitations of the Athlon XP itself, but that Nvidia just isn't as good at memory controller implementation as they should be. VIA's single-channel controllers are much better than an NForce2 in single-channel mode, though there are a myriad of other reasons to avoid VIA chipsets for DAWs.
Click to expand...

Agreed, well put Marquis
 
Marquis said:
You can suffer along for now if that's all you can afford, but I would definitely recommend going dual-channel as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
Suffer along.... Pffff....
You make it sound like Julia got herself a turtle and that's nowhere near the truth.
Let's face it. Mixing down a song to a single wav-file or encoding it to mp3 may litterally take a few seconds longer now but that's about it. In my book that's not worth extra money.

For a DAW you don't need the fastest computer but one that's fast enough.
 
Heh... Sorry if I implied you'd be putting along at 486 speeds or something, that's certainly not the case.

The system isn't going to be slow by any means, really, but an NForce2 really gets better running in dual-channel.

As for DIMM placement, you need to put them in the two slots closest to the edge of the board to enable dual-channel. But once you have done that, yes, the board will automatically recognize and enable the dual-channel mode.

You'll know for sure if it does if you pay close attention to the BIOS boot messages. When the BIOS displays the processor speed, it also tells you the speed of the RAM (it'll say something like DDR333 right now). When you add the second DIMM (presuming they're in the right two slots), it'll specifically say that's in dual-channel mode.
 
Okay, thank you all very much indeed.

So...correct placement would be to the two dimms closest to the OUTSIDE EDGE of the motherboard, then?

I think I can handle that part. :)

To be honest, the part about building this computer that concerns me the most is the placement of the heatsink onto the processor and especially the placement of the processor onto the motherboard. I keep reading warnings about not forcing...and I keep wondering why it's so difficult. I guess I'll find out as soon as Newegg sends me my stuff.

I'll take helpful hints, though!

By the way...thanks for the support, CHristiaan...I actually read many articles and reviews prior to buying the components for this computer, and the Athlon XP 2500+ Barton really ranked high for a wide variety of reasons. In fact, higher than the 2600+. Supposedly, the 2500+ was a "sweet spot". I read several respectable reviewers who said that until the Athlon 64 came along, the 2500+ was top dog.

I know, I know...there's loads of opinions on the Internet saying just about everything there is to say, but...for a woman about to build her first computer, I need all the support I can get. Thanks, Christiaan...

...and everyone.

Julia
 
The main issue is that the cpu core is delicate and brittle and can be damaged quite easily if you don't place the heatsink with care.
I was sweating when I placed my first heatsink on an AMD cpu. But it went ok. Just find a howto with pictures, that helps.
 
Julia said:
Okay, thank you all very much indeed.

So...correct placement would be to the two dimms closest to the OUTSIDE EDGE of the motherboard, then?
Click to expand...

Yup, that's exactly correct.

Julia said:
To be honest, the part about building this computer that concerns me the most is the placement of the heatsink onto the processor and especially the placement of the processor onto the motherboard. I keep reading warnings about not forcing...and I keep wondering why it's so difficult. I guess I'll find out as soon as Newegg sends me my stuff.
[/B]
Click to expand...

As mentioned by christiaan, just be careful when putting the heatsink on the processor. That is probably the only thing you're likely to do that can (if you're not careful) permanently damage your system. Most of the other components are quite resilient to all reasonable levels of fiddling.

I don't want to freak you out or anything, as you should be fine. I just like to ensure that people know what they are getting themselves into and what to watch out for.
 
thank you.

Someone told me to put a little dab of thermal compound on a piece of saran wrap, and then use that to put some onto the heatsink (I think), and then be cautious when setting it down.

I will be confused until I actually see the processor and heatsink in front of me, I think. I don't think it sounds as though you simply "set it on" the processor...sounds more like there is some degree of pressure necessary, thus the words of caution?

I hope I can do it!

Thanks again for all of your help.

Julia
 
I may be reading this wrong but The two sticks of ram in a dual chanel setting depends on the mobo. Some are grouped then paired off some nforce boards are1/3 no middle dimm. It's not going to shut you down but this is the case.
 
Yes, or 3/1 for higher benchmarks UT2003 although abit default statement is 3 to 2 or 3/2/1 512/256/256 still dual.
I used slot 1 1/2 once and thought I'd be calling for an RMA. I've 2xNf7s's and 2xNf7M's currently and build custom Setups for a large Medical Center. I get strange requests and have to provide benchmarks. 3/1 is faster (Though not noticable)try it.
 
bullyhill, a question, please?

Yes, or 3/1 for higher benchmarks UT2003 although abit default statement is 3 to 2 or 3/2/1 512/256/256 still dual.
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I wonder if you would mind translating this for me? I would really appreciate it if you had the time. I could use the education...I really want to know.

3/1?

3 to 2 or 3/2/1?

I would love to know which is 3, which is 2, which is 1, and what the above means. Even if you had time for just a brief summary response, I'd really appreciate it.

Also, it is my sense that DDR400 on a system which has a FSB of 333mhz is overkill. What I bought is that single stick of 512mb DDR400.

In your opinion, would I be best to do anything like...

overclock (though I'd need to learn how...what I want to do with the system is to use it as a DAW, period. So if overclocking could interfere, I'm not interested. I'm really not all that interested in increased speed, just increased precision, i.e. no latency problems, delays, etc.)

use 2 sticks of 512mb each, DDR333 in dual channel mode?

or what? I'm really trying to shoot for what's best for the system, while conserving unnecessary spending.

And I'm trying hard to learn...and learn and learn and learn. I want to one day know as much as a guy who builds computers for hospitals and a guy who's been building computers for 20 years.

Thanks again.

Julia
 
Re: bullyhill, a question, please?

Julia said:
In your opinion, would I be best to do anything like...
overclock (though I'd need to learn how...what I want to do with the system is to use it as a DAW, period. So if overclocking could interfere, I'm not interested. I'm really not all that interested in increased speed, just increased precision, i.e. no latency problems, delays, etc.)
Click to expand...

Overclocking made sense when computers were slow and expensive. These days it is more of a sport, rather then practical necessity. It is a very sensitive issue, which may interefere with overall stability of your system on the hardware level.
You are about to build one mighty DAW. Therefore don't bother, if you ask me.
 
bullyhill said:
Yes, or 3/1 for higher benchmarks UT2003 although abit default statement is 3 to 2 or 3/2/1 512/256/256 still dual.
I used slot 1 1/2 once and thought I'd be calling for an RMA. I've 2xNf7s's and 2xNf7M's currently and build custom Setups for a large Medical Center. I get strange requests and have to provide benchmarks. 3/1 is faster (Though not noticable)try it.
Click to expand...

To what degree is it faster, and in what applications? I haven't the hardware at the moment to do the benchmarking.

I ask because while looking at the hardware on the board, it appeared to me that slot 1 had a slightly different capacitor configuration. This could account for slightly different benchmark numbers, particularly those that are latency and/or memory bandwidth sensitive. It's also possible that under overclocked circumstances the 1/3 configuration could be marginally less stable.

This would be a non-issue at stock speeds, as I'm sure Abit has tested their hardware enough to know that'll work. but I'd be interested to see what the potential performance benefits are.
 
I knew I was rushing when posting 2 posts ago. I've got to read things twice. 1st Marquis is correct. I'm just stcking up for my mod as I am a tweaker. 123 are just #'s representing the mod placement on the mobo abit nforce has 3 closest to edge of board the 2,1 and one is closest to the cpu, as Marquis stated.

I love the statement all benchmark utilities give you "Theoretical benchmark does not indicate real life performance" or something like that. Fresh boot, temps etc plays a part in your scores. A grain of salt goes with it. Sysoft doesn't real take into considerstion the increased bandwith and can't or doesn't represent it of dual mark3d does a better job almost 100pt increase in my case, ut2k is what I've seen used on the abit forums. FSB seems to be better in single mode then dual. bandwith in dual.

Performance increase 3/1 vs 3/2 ...nah...I can't honestly say it will be consistant from one to another bench or board. I was mimicing a test on the abit forum and came up with different results leaning to 3/1. Can I see it...nope. Is it the same on all boards... nope. You can also fill all three slots and get dual ch. put a 512 in 3 and 256 in 2 and 256 in 1. the memory has to have very close timing characteristics. CAS Latency, Act to Precharge Delay,Ras to Cas and Ras precharge delay. You can search the meanings of these terms. to long to explain, but all the mods should be able to hanble the same settings when using 3 mods. They will most likely with what's refered to as relaxed timings but yiu lose on the compromise just for more band with. Basically it is the how long to hold info, how long on realse , how long to take and a ratio. Not so important. http://www.corsairmicro.com/main/trg-cas.html

I've not read the above link in some time sodon't hold me to myabove interpretation:)

Also, it is my sense that DDR400 on a system which has a FSB of 333mhz is overkill. What I bought is that single stick of 512mb DDR400.

No it's beautiful and depending on your cpu you may be able to sync everything higher then 333. By the way the fsb front side bus is the limitation on an amd based board. Even if you are not going to overclock You will be able to have more aggresive mem timings. lower cas lat. I don't really consider ocing ocing till the voltage is touched vdimm vcore etc. I think with good equipment if you push it till you ht its sweet spot then youve only optimzed your rig.(It's still ocing though)

Don't oc unless your willing to lose hard earned cash in replacement parts. Do if you can accept the loss and get somthing out of it. Like the challenge. Performance is cheaper to obtain by buying expandable quality parts.

If you buy an nforce ultra 4oo abit may not be right for you it oc's well but has its problems. but an ultra 400 board may bwe right for you if you consider the amd road map. The barton core cpu will probably hit the 3800+ at 400mhz and keep the same package or socket format. 64 bit is expensive and not needed in the consumer market for most. Intel will probably go 64bit change there package.

ultra 400/2 sticks of Low Latency pc 3200 corsair or OCZ memory and a 2500 barton

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...145-432&catalog=147&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...103-417&catalog=343&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=1&sumit=Go&description=13-131-478&searchdepa=1

Not suggestions above but an example of a good start,goto www.motherboards.org read up on mobos, find the forums there and read.

Marquis, "I ask because while looking at the hardware on the board, it appeared to me that slot 1 had a slightly different capacitor configuration. This could account for slightly different benchmark numbers, particularly those that are latency and/or memory bandwidth sensitive. It's also possible that under overclocked circumstances the 1/3 configuration could be marginally less stable.

This would be a non-issue at stock speeds, as I'm sure Abit has tested their hardware enough to know that'll work. but I'd be interested to see what the potential performance benefits are."

Soryy can't input on the capacitors, though you can buy some hot ones on line to oc it higher (fsb) :D

And I agree with you on the rest.

Julia a DAW is to be stable, I dfon't know much in that area. I'm to busy frying things to enjoy a stable setup. Good luck. Don't pay me much mind but do check out motherboards.org the forum section. I will confuse the issue no longer.......

Building pc's is only for some extra cash, I'm no pro, others here have much more knowledge, like the fella with 20 yrs experience.for sure
 
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