Rap Vocals (Help Needed)

[KashewNutz]

Firstly, I am one of those 'purist' type musicians, who fusses greatly over recordings being natural and unprocessed etc. I'm a pianist, guitarist, drummer, and most oddly, rapper

I have been recording rap vocals for quite some and getting the results I'm looking for, using a cheap mic, and just varing distance and gain to alter the sound. I use no compression/EQ whatsoever. I use the proximity effect to determine the amount of bass I want, and double track by simply rerecording.

Now, I want to learn how to achieve some different well-established sounds for rap vocals. For example, the commercial hip hop on MTV/radio with a 'fat' ADT sound.. underground hip hop with a more tinny/distant sound. I can hear by listening to the different styles whether there is a faint reverb, or high freqs boosted and what-have-you, but what I'm looking for is some concrete starting points ie: "Commercial rap sound: record 6 inches from the mic, boost these freqs:.. set the attack to..ms and compress at a ratio of ..:.." I just need a some basic instructions on how to get a particular rap vocal sound, if anyone could give me some techniques with an example of a relevant rap song, that would be great!
Thanks in advance

 

[scorpio01169]

one reason why commercial songs sound different from basement studios is for one...they have well conditioned, tuned vocal booths as well as nice mics, preamps, compressors, and someone who knows how to use them properly. once you learn the proper micing and gain staging techs you'll be halfway there. the next thing is professional mastering. almost all commercial material is sent to expensive mastering houses. it is a job better left for them. it is almost always a disaster if you try to master yourself.

 

[chessrock]

If there was such a recipe or starting point ... then it would be common knowledge, it would be published and everyone would be doing it.

I hate to break it to you like this, but you're going to have to experiment with this shit and figure it out. Learn what a compressor does and what effect it has on the sound, and then experiment to find out what works for you in various different situations. Try tracking at various distances and listen to the effect each distance / angle has on the sound ... take notes and experiment some more.

If this is all too tough for you to wrap your head around, then you need to take up a more method-based hobby ... like cooking, ping-pong, stamp collecting, or knitting.

.

 

[IronFlippy]

While there are techniques certain producers use, it's almost all dependent on the vocalist. I'd suggest getting subscriptions to some recording magazines like EQ. They always have interviews with engineers and producers who work with the big guys, and they discuss what they do, and usually give some nice tricks. There's even a free one called Tape Op which had an interview this past issue with Bob Power, a NYC hip hop producer. They can give you good leads, but really it's up to you to figure out what techniques works with what tracks. So no, there is no concrete starting point. After a while of experimenting, you'll find certain techniques that work well with your voice, your room and your equipment, but so much is variable that no one can give compressor settings (for example) that will give a certain sound, time and time again. This is why we call it the art of recording, not the science.

 

[cusebassman]

Chess said it best - experiment. There is no formula by which Microphone X + vocal booth B + Preamp C = hiphop mastery.

It differs from studio to studio, and internal to each one, performer to performer, engineer to engineer, etc etc.

If you like the sound you are getting now, then you need to experiment with dynamics control, maybe vocal effects like reverb, etc., depending on how it is applied to whatever you are rapping over.

I'd say the first place to start is room treatment - seems like that is the firt place anyone should start working with, and you are apparently at an advantage since you actually like the quality of your recordings otherwise (which is often not the case)

 

[danny.guitar]

I figured Chessrock would say something a long the lines of:

"Hey man it's just rap, who gives a fuck? You're just talking. Just use a radio shack mic and be done with it."

 

[KashewNutz]

Thanks for replies

I know that experimentation is the only way to achieve results - I've been recording drums and guitar for about a year now. It's just that I can't seem to be bothered to go through it to achieve the rap vocal sounds I'm looking for, and was after some basic common techniques which are going to 'do the job' as it were. I have been tracking at different distances to find the sound I'm after, but on a course I went on, they said that ADT was standardized at 100ms. I tried 100ms, and it sounded terrible, which is what prompted me to experiment. The same with compression. Apparantly heavy compression with a slow attack will give a good 'punchy' rap sound because the start of words are going to come through loud; of course I need to experiment with amounts of compression myself to find the sound I'm after, but I'm after some general guidlines such as rough distance from the mic, and some compression settings to simply start off with. At the moment, I'm recording literally right up to the mic (under an inch), and using no compression at all. I can rap completely evenly (as I can see the waveform and hear that it is), so I'm not after compressing it to even the dynamic, but I want to get the overall volume louder and sounding a bit more like a typical rap vocal.

 

[cusebassman]

I figured Chessrock would say something a long the lines of:

"Hey man it's just rap, who gives a fuck? You're just talking. Just use a radio shack mic and be done with it."

And he'd be right

 

[chessrock]

I'm after some general guidlines such as rough distance from the mic, and some compression settings to simply start off with. At the moment, I'm recording literally right up to the mic (under an inch), and using no compression at all.

General guidelines? Okay ...

If you're currently righ up on the mic, then try backign up about 3 inches. Then track, and evaluate. If you like it, then stay there. If you still don't like it, then try moving back another 3 inches. Listen back ... if you like it, stay there, if you still don't like it, then back up even more. Then try getting close to the mic again. Then try rapping upside-down. Then try pointing the mic at your feet just for kicks.

Test ... Measure (evaluate) ... and refine.

Got it?

1) Test (try a certain distance from the mic or a certain setting on the comp)

2) Measure / Evaluate (listen to the effect it has on the sound, and take note of how it changes the sound for the better or worse)

3) Refine (or alter your approach based on the findings of your experimentations).

.

 

[cusebassman]

General guidelines? Okay ...

If you're currently righ up on the mic, then try backign up about 3 inches. Then track, and evaluate. If you like it, then stay there. If you still don't like it, then try moving back another 3 inches. Listen back ... if you like it, stay there, if you still don't like it, then back up even more. Then try getting close to the mic again. Then try rapping upside-down. Then try pointing the mic at your feet just for kicks.

Test ... Measure (evaluate) ... and refine.

Got it?

1) Test (try a certain distance from the mic or a certain setting on the comp)

2) Measure / Evaluate (listen to the effect it has on the sound, and take note of how it changes the sound for the better or worse)

3) Refine (or alter your approach based on the findings of your experimentations).

.

Most amazing sarcasm ever, especially because its true, all at the same time.

 

[mystasynasta]

well i have a lot of experience in hip hop recording (3500 songs and counting). i pretty much only record hip hop and r&b on a regular basis 50 hrs a week.

i now have a template that i use for hip hop. the most important thing about making the vocals sit in with the beat is compression. there is literally no dynamics when it comes to hip hop. HEAVY compression i mean HEAVY! up to 15 decibels of gain reduction (usually my threshold is set at -30db with a gain make up of 18 to 20) at times with a 4:1 ratio, very fast reaction (less then 10 ms) time with a medium to fast release time. put this on each vocal track (even the add libs). turn the addlibs down about 6 decibels less then the main track. this makes the adlibs fit nice with the main track nicely. i buss all of the vocals together and depending on the person, sometimes i need to add a 3-6 db gain to 7-8k and above to add presence. hip hop vocals are usually pretty dry, but if you add a VERY little amount (at least 30 decibels below the main level of the vocals) of delay in an fx send set at 300ms or so with 0 feedback and roll off 300 hz and below and 3000hz and above it tends to bring the vocals forward a bit. reverb is often used but i like my reverb set to a smaller room, often set to less than 1 second of decay and i usually roll off from 300 hz and below on that also to keep them from being too muddy. i lower the reverb about 25-30db below the main vocals. Also, the room should be a very dry room to keep the vocals dry.

Obviously every track is different but i found that i usually use the same compression settings on almost every track. Rap is extremely compressed, especially the vocals. Hope this helps.

good luck!

-Lee

 

[KashewNutz]

Lee I can't thank you enough

 

[chessrock]

Hey Lee,

How did you arrive at that "template" or method that you use?

Did you read about it in a book? Magazine? Do you personally know someone who you observed who passed that down to you?

Just curious. Thanks.

.

 

[mystasynasta]

haha i did exactly as you said chessrock, i experimented. yes you were right, it does take experimentation to get the results that you are looking for. some times i just get bored with the template so i try some new things. sometimes i get better results but more often then not i revert back to the template.

glad to help

 

[chessrock]

haha i did exactly as you said chessrock, i experimented. ... it does take experimentation to get the results that you are looking for.

Imagine that.

 

[Cadillac Music]

well i have a lot of experience in hip hop recording (3500 songs and counting). i pretty much only record hip hop and r&b on a regular basis 50 hrs a week.

i now have a template that i use for hip hop. the most important thing about making the vocals sit in with the beat is compression. there is literally no dynamics when it comes to hip hop. HEAVY compression i mean HEAVY! up to 15 decibels of gain reduction (usually my threshold is set at -30db with a gain make up of 18 to 20) at times with a 4:1 ratio, very fast reaction (less then 10 ms) time with a medium to fast release time. put this on each vocal track (even the add libs). turn the addlibs down about 6 decibels less then the main track. this makes the adlibs fit nice with the main track nicely. i buss all of the vocals together and depending on the person, sometimes i need to add a 3-6 db gain to 7-8k and above to add presence. hip hop vocals are usually pretty dry, but if you add a VERY little amount (at least 30 decibels below the main level of the vocals) of delay in an fx send set at 300ms or so with 0 feedback and roll off 300 hz and below and 3000hz and above it tends to bring the vocals forward a bit. reverb is often used but i like my reverb set to a smaller room, often set to less than 1 second of decay and i usually roll off from 300 hz and below on that also to keep them from being too muddy. i lower the reverb about 25-30db below the main vocals. Also, the room should be a very dry room to keep the vocals dry.

Obviously every track is different but i found that i usually use the same compression settings on almost every track. Rap is extremely compressed, especially the vocals. Hope this helps.

good luck!

-Lee

No bs... that actually helped lol wow... Havent tried the reverb but the compression. sounded better than my actual vocal with no/effects.