Random idea regarding tracking vocals WITHOUT headphone bleed

J

Johnny Don't!

New member
Hey there, kids. Sort of a strange idea here...

So, I got an ad email from this hipster website I'm a member of; they always send really cool stuff that I can't afford 95% of the time (typical musician). :rolleyes:

But today they sent an email with a product that I can not only afford but that *might* solve an issue I have both as a session vocalist AND a recording engineer.

I find that when I'm tracking my own vocals, I use a shit-ton of fairly heavy-handed mic technique: sometimes my lips are right up against the pop filter; then the next instant I'm three feet away from it. When I lean in really close (which is typically at least 50% of any lead vocal I do; I really dig the close, intimate sound), I find I have to press the cans hard n' tight against my ears or there's a TON of bleed. There still tends to be a small amount of it even when I'm pressing my hardest. I do enough vocal work that I'm worried I'm gonna get cauliflower ears like a freakin' wrestler. Haha.

The product featured in said email is bone-conduction headphones. I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience using them as headphones during a vocal session, and if so, what his/her thoughts are on them. I am operating under the assumption that the technology will completely eliminate any bleed, but what's it like singing with them on and having yer sinuses & bones in yer head vibrating from the sound of yer voice along with the vibrations caused by the conduction headphones? Also, what's monitoring the vocal like using these headphones, since they do NOT cover the ears and allow you to hear everything going on around you along with the audio from the headphones?

Any input is welcomed, but I obviously prefer input from those whom have real-world experience with this technology. Thanks in advance!
 
You just need headphones that aren't open. It's not some industry secret. There are literally a million songs that don't feature headphone bleed.

I have no idea what bone-conduction headphones are. Can you link us?
 
Schwarzenyaeger said:
You just need headphones that aren't open. It's not some industry secret. There are literally a million songs that don't feature headphone bleed.

I have no idea what bone-conduction headphones are. Can you link us?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was going to say something similar.... what is it about the OP's particular singing style that hasn't been solved with ordinary headphones, a million times already, before they invented bone conduction headphones?

That said... I was curious and had a bit of a google/read... and one of the things about these headphones is that they leave your ears open, and so you can hear normal sounds as well as what's coming at you via the headphones.... you know how lots of people will half uncover one ear when singing in cans, so they can hear their actual voice rather more clearly, rather than the signal fedback into the cans.... the bone conduction thing would sort of get around that issue. I have zero knowledge on the fidelity of such headphones, however... so be interested in what some of the more experienced studio guys thought about the concept.
 
Wait! What's the matter with headphone bleed? Isn't it the same music that will go with the vocal track anyway? As long as there is not click track bleeding through, leave it there and don't worry about it. It will never be heard.

Otherwise, have you tried professional in-ear-monitors? They don't bleed.
 
I get very little bleed with my Sony 7510s and imperceptible with the Sennheiser 380s. I keep my pop screen about 6-8" away and I can lean right on it without getting bleed. My MXL 2001 is not the best mike in the world, but it hasn't been picking up any bleed since I stopped using the Denon semi-opens.
 
There are a plethora, yes, plethora, of ways to solve bleed without having to vibrate your sinuses.

Turn the cans down. How loud do you have those things?
Turn the mic pre down. How hot do you have to track?
Most importantly - just use the right headphones. Closed back, seal to your head, no problem.
 
Greg_L said:
There are a plethora, yes, plethora, of ways to solve bleed without having to vibrate your sinuses.

Turn the cans down. How loud do you have those things?
Turn the mic pre down. How hot do you have to track?
Most importantly - just use the right headphones. Closed back, seal to your head, no problem.
Click to expand...

^^^^++++++1^^^^
Closed-back headphones, turn them down already - you're going to end up with tinitus by the time you're 45 (believe me it's no fun).
 
I work for a two-way radio dealer (you know, like industry grade walkie talkies for government, manufacturing, etc), and I've tried the style of headset you're talking about, but not for tracking vocals, just using with the radios. I don't sell too many of them because most people want to block external noises when hearing a transmission. However they are used by some workers who, for safety, need to hear the outside world as well.

That being said, I don't think they'd work very well for tracking unless you're the type of singer who likes to have one can off their ear (which can cause a good bit of bleed when up close to mic), because they prefer to hear part of their natural voice in the room and then some of their voice in the mix. However, I'd say only about 35% of the vocalists I've tracked take a can off one ear. And those that do usually know what they are doing and are accustomed to that sound. No sense changing it for them since they are comfortable.

All that aside, what the hell is wrong with a little bleed? Bleed happens. I bet I know why you're hearing it...you're listening to your vocal track in solo aren't you? Stop listening in solo...no one else is going to hear it like that! A couple years ago I finally stopped fretting about how things sound in solo and it was very liberating and enabled me to work much faster and get better results.
 
Oh and for the record, you don't feel the vibrations. It's bone-conduction and it's so subtle that nothing about how your voice sounds or projects is changed whatsoever.
 
Perhaps it's the "vocal style"? Lips up against the pop screen to 3 feet away in one take sounds like an impossible situation to deal with regardless of equipment. How can a preamp be set to track at a few inches and at several feet and have any chance of giving a good result? Maybe stop dicking around with the vocal gymnastics and do it right? Tracking with a shit-ton of heavy handed mic technique would get your ass sent home from my studio. Time is too precious to waste on a bunch of sonic fuckery.
 
cafehonda said:
Perhaps it's the "vocal style"? Lips up against the pop screen to 3 feet away in one take sounds like an impossible situation to deal with regardless of equipment. How can a preamp be set to track at a few inches and at several feet and have any chance of giving a good result? Maybe stop dicking around with the vocal gymnastics and do it right? Tracking with a shit-ton of heavy handed mic technique would get your ass sent home from my studio. Time is too precious to waste on a bunch of sonic fuckery.
Click to expand...

Yes, this.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
How do you set a mic preamp for distance? I set mine to accommodate the source's SPL at the mic.[/QUOTE

Well I thought this was obvious but here goes; A sound source will present different spl measurements at different distances. As an example, a snare may present in excess of 130db at 2" from the head yet only 100 db at 6' away. Therefore, it would stand to reason that it would be difficult at best to set the gain of a preamp to capture suitable signal from the source if said source was at one moment 2" from the source and moments later at 3' from the source without some sort of gain leveling (compression), giving that the sound source held a consitent output level.
Click to expand...
 
cafehonda said:
Well I thought this was obvious but here goes; A sound source will present different spl measurements at different distances. As an example, a snare may present in excess of 130db at 2" from the head yet only 100 db at 6' away. Therefore, it would stand to reason that it would be difficult at best to set the gain of a preamp to capture suitable signal from the source if said source was at one moment 2" from the source and moments later at 3' from the source without some sort of gain leveling (compression), giving that the sound source held a consitent output level.
Click to expand...

Methinks you're missing boulder's point....
 
cafehonda said:
bouldersoundguy said:
How do you set a mic preamp for distance? I set mine to accommodate the source's SPL at the mic.
Click to expand...

Well I thought this was obvious but here goes; A sound source will present different spl measurements at different distances. As an example, a snare may present in excess of 130db at 2" from the head yet only 100 db at 6' away. Therefore, it would stand to reason that it would be difficult at best to set the gain of a preamp to capture suitable signal from the source if said source was at one moment 2" from the source and moments later at 3' from the source without some sort of gain leveling (compression), giving that the sound source held a consitent output level.
Click to expand...
Yes, but if your vocal performance goes from very quiet to very loud, you will be up close to the mic for the quiet parts and back off for the loud parts. That's called mic technique. Of course, going from touching the mic to 4 feet away seems like a bit of an exaggeration, but going from right up on it to two feet away can be pretty normal with a dynamic performance.
 
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Greg_L said:
There are a plethora, yes, plethora, of ways to solve bleed without having to vibrate your sinuses.

Turn the cans down. How loud do you have those things?
Turn the mic pre down. How hot do you have to track?
Most importantly - just use the right headphones. Closed back, seal to your head, no problem.
Click to expand...

All of the above plus make sure the headphones you choose fit your head properly. Everybody has a different head size and different ears...and cans that seal perfectly on one person leak badly on somebody else.

That said, previous posters are correct. Millions of recording are made with all sorts of headphone monitor styles and levels and no recorded bleed, simply by using the right conventional headphones.
 
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