Quick danelectro question

pikingrin

pikingrin

what is this?
thedano59.JPG
Crappy picture but helluva guitar!

Question is about the lipstick pickups. Not sure how sensitive they are compared to "standard" single coils but there is a noticeable difference in volume between the bridge and "neck" pickup. The neck (more like middle) pickup is considerably louder than the bridge pickup. The heights are, without putting a micrometer on it, just about the same but dang. Neck pickup is booming and bridge is just kind of there. Would a height adjustment fix that or is it just the nature of the beast? This is my first hands-on experience with lipsticks so wasn't sure if it was just physics or a crap design.
 
I haven't played mine in so long I can't remember if I have that problem, but I don't think so. But then my six is a triple pickup, so somewhat different placement.

I could be wrong about this, but I think the 'neck' is going to be louder because of it's placement. That location is going to see greater string vibration than the bridge, which is really close to the bridge. Are the heights even adjustable? If not, then yeah, it's a crap design.

What kind of amp is that? The picture's pretty dark.
 
I think of a vibrating guitar string like a jump rope being held by a person at each end. One person represents the bridge, the other represents the nut. As the jump rope is swung around, think of how much travel the rope makes near either end...not much. Think of how much travel it makes in the center...a lot.

Since a guitar pickup works on the principal of a piece of metal (the string) moving through a magnetic field (the pickup) to generate an electrical current, think of how much more current is generated when the metal travels more.

So a pickup near the bridge will be generating a weaker signal than a pickup that's more towards the center of the string. If both pickups have the same specifications, I'd imagine that the pickup closer to the center of the string would come across as louder than one farther from the center of the string.

At least that's how I visualize it...it could be a quirk of the guitar's electronics, or a mismatched set of pickups, or something else that my rudimentary understanding of guitar pickups won't allow me to understand :)

That's a beautifully ugly guitar by the way. Danelectro just has that ability to craft something that by all visual sensibilities should be hideous, but they're just classy somehow. I can't explain it. Much like the physics behind guitar pickups!
 
Tadpui said:
One person represents the bridge, the other represents the nut.
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More often that other end is actually a fret, but otherwise yes, exactly what you said. It gets even more fun when you start picturing the harmonics that kind of cut that jump rope into a chain of smaller jump ropes and the whole thing about why the neck pickup sound different from the bridge suddenly makes a bunch of sense.

Most modern guitars have a significantly hotter pickup at the bridge compared to what's at the neck. I wouldn't be surprised if this "vintage" Dano has two identical pickups. If you don't want to go over to guitarfetish and replace them with a better balanced set, then you are pretty much left with height adjustment to compensate. Course that might bring changes to tone...
 
THose things - well, the made in China ones that are the current stock are SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS in Australia at present. Ridiculous! I've always wanted a Long Horn bass - but they want AUS$900!!!
 
Cardio: I'm pretty sure the pickups are adjustable, the screws are through the back of the guitar. I'll have to play around with that a little later today. The amp is a little Fender Mustang I that I keep in the living room for dinking around. It also doubles as a play toy for my 2 year old niece when the in-laws come over. It's not bad for a practice amp.

Tad: I was aware of the string vibration scenario but I guess I was surprised at how much of a difference there is. Granted, the bridge pickup might as well be attached to the bridge...but it's not that much different than a tele bridge pickup, maybe 1/2" closer or so (on the close side of the angle) but there's not a volume difference on a tele.

Ash: I may look into guitar fetish and see what they've got. This guitar was touted as having NOS pickups (made in 1999 :D ) so I was kind of hoping they'd be worth a shite. I'll play with heights a little later and see what I can figure out.

Ray: I think these are being made in Korea now, that's where this one was made anyway. What is the conversion rate between US and Australia? New Longhorns are going for $419 US...
 
Ditto on what the others said. Neck pickups are generally chosen to be milder than their bridge counterparts because string energy is much stronger at the neck. If you're running two identical pickups in that guitar, then it stands to reason that the neck pickup will sound much more powerful than the bridge. Replace it if you want or try adjusting the height.
 
pikingrin said:
...but there's not a volume difference on a tele.
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...cause the pickups are mismatched. I honestly can't say for sure what you've got in there, but if you've got a multimeter you could tell a lot by just plugging in a cable and reading resistance between tip and sleeve as you flip the switch around.

Ash: I may look into guitar fetish and see what they've got.
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I'd definitely try adjusting the height first because it's free and easy. The difference in harmonic content makes it very difficult to match the volume between a neck and bridge pickup in any objective way. Sometimes the balance seems to change as you move between amps or turn distorters on or off. I'm sure you'll know when it feels right to you, though.

I've never actually tried the GFS lipstick pickups, but they have a set that specifically says "Fits Danelectro", and comes in 3 different "strengths". I think a friend over at the GN2 forum has some of them in a guitar or two, and is pretty happy with them. I have their other pickups in like 6 of my guitars (and my banjo) and just don't bother with other manufacturers.

Hey, is the "both pickups" setting louder than the other two settings, or is it about the same?
 
I'll go snag my multimeter and check it out then.

When the switch is in the neck position it's perfect - loud and full. In the middile position the volume doesn't change but it adds a nice bit of bite. In the bridge position, the overall volume decreases and it sounds thin. The tonal change in the bridge pickup is to be expected, for sure, just not the volume difference.
 
Post the numbers for all three positions, please. I'm curious.

Edit - make sure the V pot is all the way up before you measure.
 
Ok, here's what the multimeter says... Checking resistance on the setting that is x1K (x10 gives me nothing). On the bridge pickup, reading is 4. Middle switch position it jumps to 8, then back to 4 when it's only the neck pickup.

Not sure what that means, unless that could be an indication that it's the same pickup in both positions?

Volume and tone pots are wide open.
 
Well it's not that it's the same pickup in both positions or you wouldn't hear any difference between the two.

I don't know about the GFS Dano replacements, but Seymour Duncan makes 'em too, and they're supposed to be pretty good.

I'd go check mine out for you, but I don't think the people at the pawn shop are going to let me back there just yet. :(
 
Actually, sounds like both pickups are identical, which they really shouldn't be, but then a lot of pickups are made without a differentiation between bridge and neck, so I give up.

Johnny, tell NotCardio what he hasn't won...
 
Yep, they are essentially the same pickup. They sound different because they get a different balance of harmonics. The neck will want to be further from the strings than the bridge, though maybe try raising the bridge pickup first if you can, since you feel like it's weak and thin.

The fact that the middle position is double either of the others confirms my suspicion that they are wired in series when both are selected. That is a bit unusual nowadays. Most guitars - Strats, Teles, LPs, Ricks, etc - are parallel in the middle position, which would make that reading half of the others. Dano and a lot of the "budget" guitars - Kay, Teisco, etc - do this series thing. That position should be louder and darker than either of them - much like difference between an SC and an HB. When you get the balanced so that both pickups are contributing evenly, I think you might notice that a little better.
 
I was thinking that meant they were wired in series, but then I decided not to say that at the risk of looking even dumber.

And I don't know why I said that about them being different. When I went back and looked at that I thought 'why did you say that dipshit, did you forget about the positioning?'.

I'm starting to worry about myself.
 
So, if you had a guitar with other pickups that don't have a bridge and neck model, wouldn't you encounter this same scenario?
 
notCardio said:
So, if you had a guitar with other pickups that don't have a bridge and neck model, wouldn't you encounter this same scenario?
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Yep. If the pickups are identical, and about the same distance from the strings, the neck pickup will usually be louder over most of the neck. The difference does change some depending on where you're fretting though. If you play the 22 fret on a strat or tele, the neck pickup is actually not really much closer to the middle of the vibrating length than the bridge pickup is. The harmonic balance also changes depending on fretting, which just complicates things even more.
 
Long live the Dano. :)

Such a cool-sounding guitar, and mine plays like a dream!
 

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Very nice, beagle! I almost went with the orange, was also considering the "baby come back" blue but my gut was screaming sea foam green! Nice amp collection, by the way...what's that blue mini stack in the left of the pic? I've been trying to find a VHT to try out, too...

Did you have any issues with the pickups like I'm having?

Cardio, don't worry about yourself man...worrying never helps anything.
 
pikingrin said:
Very nice, beagle! I almost went with the orange, was also considering the "baby come back" blue but my gut was screaming sea foam green! Nice amp collection, by the way...what's that blue mini stack in the left of the pic? I've been trying to find a VHT to try out, too...

Did you have any issues with the pickups like I'm having?

Cardio, don't worry about yourself man...worrying never helps anything.
Click to expand...

Ha! I had to go back and reread your original post because all I did was check out the picture of your awesome Dano. :)

Yes I do/did have that same problem with mine. I figured it was because, as others have said, the pickups were probably identical, and the string vibration at the neck is much greater than at the bridge. I adjusted the heights of both to compensate for it, but the neck is still a bit louder. It's livable though. If I remember correctly, the middle position on mine is the loudest of all.

That blue piggy back is a "Montone," named after my old cat Monty. It's a clone of a Marshall 18 watt that I built. The cabinet has two 10" Webers in it.

That little VHT Special 6 totally cooks! I love it. For the price, it's amazing.
 
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