Questions For Drummers- Studio and Smaller Venue Volume/ Atack Control

[stevieb]

A few questions for those drummers who know their way around playing in a recording studio- any pro recording session drummers here?

Scored one of these as part of a bunch of drum stuff I just got cheap:

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--AQUCS

Cool idea, and I am told they do a good job of preventing damage to cymbals- but do they have any appreciable effect on cymbal tone, vis a vis recording?

How 'bout hydraulic heads? A guitarist/friend has these on his band's rehersal kit, and loves them for rehersal in a smaller room, but he says they would suck for live performance? What do they do for recording?
And finally, studio rings:
http://www.interstatemusic.com/weba...0001&storeId=10051&langId=-1&productId=161462

These I have played around with a bit, and I did notice a difference in tone. But what I do not know is, when recording drums in a purpose-built drum closet, what effect to they have on the recorded tracks? Is it, overall, a good change, or a bad one?

I have purposely left the questions somewhat vague- I know there are many other conditions that might have as much an effect on sound/tone/timbre- please comment on your personal experiences, and include whatever other conditions that were present and you think have bearing.

http://www.ruppsdrums.com/Drum_Head...c_Drum_Heads/evans_hydraulic_drum_heads.shtml

In addition to possible studio recording benefits, I would like to find a way to tone down the drums in performance in a smaller venue- approx. 40x40 with 20 foot ceilings, quite lively room, with hard walls, nothing on rear wall to reduce slap back, but coushoned chairs replacing the oak pews there previously- the chairs made a HUGE difference, BTW, thus allowing the drummer to play a little stronger yet not overpower the room. To THAT end:

The hydraulic link says they increase attack and reduce sustain- I was hoping they would make the drums less "lively" and thus WOULD work in that kind of space.

Surely the studio rings would help, right?

"Soft" sticks, brushes, and have helped, some. Any suggestions for sticks he maybe has not tried?

Thanks.

 

[Rimshot]

It has to all be in "the playing" first. Drummers that rely on studio tricks only to get their sound will never sound that good no matter what they do and even if studio magic can be done, the "cat will be out of the bag" the first time they do a live show.

 

[Simman]

A few questions for those drummers who know their way around playing in a recording studio- any pro recording session drummers here?

Scored one of these as part of a bunch of drum stuff I just got cheap:

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--AQUCS

Cool idea, and I am told they do a good job of preventing damage to cymbals- but do they have any appreciable effect on cymbal tone, vis a vis recording?

Springs have been around for a long time and I've used them in both "live" & studio environments and have heard no appreciable difference in the sound of my cymbals. While they might stop you from having to buy new felt and sleeves (poor sleeves being a leading cause for damage to a cymbal bell, IMO) they will not completely eliminate the possibility of a cymbal cracking at the edge (I've done it).

How 'bout hydraulic heads? A guitarist/friend has these on his band's rehersal kit, and loves them for rehersal in a smaller room, but he says they would suck for live performance? What do they do for recording?
And finally, studio rings:
http://www.interstatemusic.com/weba...0001&storeId=10051&langId=-1&productId=161462

These I have played around with a bit, and I did notice a difference in tone. But what I do not know is, when recording drums in a purpose-built drum closet, what effect to they have on the recorded tracks? Is it, overall, a good change, or a bad one?

I have purposely left the questions somewhat vague- I know there are many other conditions that might have as much an effect on sound/tone/timbre- please comment on your personal experiences, and include whatever other conditions that were present and you think have bearing.

http://www.ruppsdrums.com/Drum_Head...c_Drum_Heads/evans_hydraulic_drum_heads.shtml

In addition to possible studio recording benefits, I would like to find a way to tone down the drums in performance in a smaller venue- approx. 40x40 with 20 foot ceilings, quite lively room, with hard walls, nothing on rear wall to reduce slap back, but coushoned chairs replacing the oak pews there previously- the chairs made a HUGE difference, BTW, thus allowing the drummer to play a little stronger yet not overpower the room. To THAT end:

The hydraulic link says they increase attack and reduce sustain- I was hoping they would make the drums less "lively" and thus WOULD work in that kind of space.

Surely the studio rings would help, right?

"Soft" sticks, brushes, and have helped, some. Any suggestions for sticks he maybe has not tried?

Thanks.

The rest of your post, IMO, has more to do with room acoustics and drum tuning. However, no matter what heads you use, how you tune your drums (which is important) or what mic technique you use, nothing will makeup for the large reverb times in an untreated room the size you describe. For example: at 125Hz you're dealing with a reverb time of ~1.1sec, 4000Hz the time is almost 3 secs, and even worse at 500hz it's almost 4 sec. Bottom line: you need to reduce the reverb times which is exactly what the chairs help do.

I much prefer a lively room (but treated) for recording drums and tuning my kit so they can "breath" a bit. I've been using Evens EC series heads with good success. Overheads provide most of the overall kit sound so the openness of the kit works better for me. If close micing is incorporated, too much openness will case ringing therefore I either re-tune the kit or just use some moongel.

Last but not least, I agree with Rimshot; it starts with the drummer and their ability to control the dynamics of their playing. Put a crappy drummer that can't play in the best acoustic environment known to man and they'll still be crappy; drums might sound a bit better though.

Just my 0.02

 

[The549]

Hydraulics sound terrible! On my kit as well as some metal bands that I've been able to pick out when hearing them on TV! They just don't have a good sound, boxy, weak. Get a coated double ply, or moongel, or damping rings, I highly don't recommend hydraulics, unless you don't like the sound of any good sounding drum that existed before those heads existed
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