Questions about tube pres and noise

[warble2]

Hey all,

Just purchased a Korg TP-2 Tube preamp. I'll put it this way, 9V AC so I know it's not high-end proper voltage tube, but the tubes do impart something into the signal - and it really sounds pretty decent. Also has an optical compressor for which I'm pretty happy with what it does. What drove me to purchase it was the $180 closeout price tag from Sweetwater, and that I like new toys in my little studio.

So, I've tested it out and while I do like the sound, I'm not impressed with the noise it's creating. It's speced at 85 dB and with the gain set about right for incoming signal, and output set about right for outgoing signal into my Echo Layla 3G, the hiss sticks out to me. I'm guessing that real tube preamps, and high-end ones, don't hiss like this Korg.

Anyone else out there living with the hiss of low-mid end pres? The pres on my Layla aren't bad, and I also have VTB-1's here, and one thing I notice is that the hiss isn't an issue with these. I'm using a CAD M177 condenser, which has a pretty decently low self noise (something like 10dB), and it works great in conjunction with my Layla and VTB-1 pres.

 

[mikey@thecave]

try laying off the compression while recording back off the ratio

 

[kojdogg]

Hey all,

Just purchased a Korg TP-2 Tube preamp. I'll put it this way, 9V AC so I know it's not high-end proper voltage tube, but the tubes do impart something into the signal - and it really sounds pretty decent. Also has an optical compressor for which I'm pretty happy with what it does. What drove me to purchase it was the $180 closeout price tag from Sweetwater, and that I like new toys in my little studio.

So, I've tested it out and while I do like the sound, I'm not impressed with the noise it's creating. It's speced at 85 dB and with the gain set about right for incoming signal, and output set about right for outgoing signal into my Echo Layla 3G, the hiss sticks out to me. I'm guessing that real tube preamps, and high-end ones, don't hiss like this Korg.

Anyone else out there living with the hiss of low-mid end pres? The pres on my Layla aren't bad, and I also have VTB-1's here, and one thing I notice is that the hiss isn't an issue with these. I'm using a CAD M177 condenser, which has a pretty decently low self noise (something like 10dB), and it works great in conjunction with my Layla and VTB-1 pres.

I saw that deal at Sweetwater too and did a little research on it via Google. Based on the reviews I saw, noise seems to be an inherent problem with those units. As to higher end vs. lower end, I have a UA m610 and do not have a problem with hiss, but up until recently I also had an ART TPS where hiss was not a major problem. As the previous poster noted, the compression will def make this worse, but another thing I read about the Korg is that you can't turn off the compression. Maybe if you adjust the settings-- back of the threshold, ratio and/or makeup gain that will help. Good luck with this!

 

[warble2]

Thanks for the replies.

The noise I'm experiencing is with the compression knob at it lowest - which I'm not 100% sure cuts out the compressor totally - but I don't hear any type of compression in the signal. There is no on-off switch, which was a mis-step in the design if you ask me. I think I'm going to send it back any try something different. I worked with the damn thing for 4 hours yesterday, and couldn't get satisfied with the noise level. I'd just be concerned when I started layering tracks using it.

 

[Rodger Hartlett]

try driving it a bit more. Try and find the clipping point then back off just a bit. An extra db or two may push the noise floor down a little.

 

[warble2]

try driving it a bit more. Try and find the clipping point then back off just a bit. An extra db or two may push the noise floor down a little.

I drove it pretty good when testing it out - I didn't like what I was hearing. When it was peaking at about 0 dB occasionally it wasn't terrible, but above that driving the tubes really didn't impress me. BUT, I'm not terribly disappointed seeing as this isn't really a tube preamp.

Anyway, I decided to send it back and get a single channel True Systems P-Solo. I don't think I'll be disappointed with the P-Solo, and I think just having a clean, good (or from what I've been reading, GREAT) pre will suffice. Not really needing two channels.

 

[kojdogg]

supposedly and reportedly a great preamp man. good luck-- noise should not be a problem!

 

[warble2]

supposedly and reportedly a great preamp man. good luck-- noise should not be a problem!

Thanks - we'll see in a couple days. I've found some various stuff about the P-Solo and more on the Precision 8. I think not hearing a lot in the way of high-end stuff, and dinking around with $100-$500 pre's, I'll be happy with it. I have a SP VTB-1 (been happy with it for the most part), and have used a DMP3 and a M-audio Tampa with decent results.

I could've gotten a little color going with the Great River ME-1NV - which may very well be a better pre - but I'm ready to just get clean, detailed tracks recorded that I can use. Thought about Presonus (Eureka or MP20), the Grace 101 and even the ART MPA Gold, but opted for the True.

My plans are using for vox and direct clean electric guitar.

 

[kojdogg]

yeah man, having gone from an art tps last year to having the choice between a chamelon labs 7602, a ua m610 and the onyx preamps on my mackie, it makes a hell of a difference-- especially when it comes time to mix. still i feel like i made some good music and/or sounds with the art.
i def was considering the p-solo. great river sounds awesome too, but it's like twice as much as the p-solo!

 

[warble2]

yeah man, having gone from an art tps last year to having the choice between a chamelon labs 7602, a ua m610 and the onyx preamps on my mackie, it makes a hell of a difference-- especially when it comes time to mix. still i feel like i made some good music and/or sounds with the art.
i def was considering the p-solo. great river sounds awesome too, but it's like twice as much as the p-solo!

Seems that people have had luck with ART stuff - like the TPS, DPS, etc., but I've never used it. The Great River ME-1NV is about 2x as much - tempted me regardless.

 

[Eddmann69]

Noisy VTB-1?

Hello, I also have a VTB-1, and I seem to get the hiss you are talking about getting with your current preamp. I am using the Shure SM7B mic, and I know it has an ungodly low output, but come ON! If I get the signal loud enough to even be heard on playback with out maximizimg the volume, the the hiss is as loud as the voice. Its really annoying that I cannot get a single good quiet voice track from this thing, like you said, so many other people have been having good luck with the VTB-1, and I dont understand how, if they had the hiss im getting, I dont think they could actually say they liked it? How did you hook yours up? I have been trying the line out of the VTB-1 to the line in on my mBox (1). When I hooked it up XLR to XLR it was even QUIETER. I really want to buy a mixer soon, maybe a Mackie Onyx board, one of the smaller ones, but its all a lost cause if I cant get anything good from this dumb little thing. Plus the signal is only as good as the weakest component, and I dont want to buy a Corvette and park it at a bike rack, I need to match the quality of the SM7 with a good preamp, sooooo what do you think about the Grace 101? Or the Avalon single channel unit, both pretty much the same price? I cant stand fussing with this noise anymore, and I will NOT put out a Voiceover demo with hiss in the background. Right now as it stands, I could do a better VO with my SM57 into the chain. I think I am just going to have to eat the cost of this SM7, because I havent found one good thing about this mic since the day it arrived at my doorstep, other than it looks like a ray gun when its naked.

Thanks...-Eddie