Question re: starting out home recording for classical guitar

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nicholasherbert

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Hi there, I am new to this forum

I am a complete beginner when it comes to recording but want to record myself playing classical guitar and get excellent audio and

video. My current gear is a Nikon d5200 and a mic stand with the RODE Stereo Video Mic pro attached. I have to say i was disapointed

with the results - there was a "hiss" from the camera recording - after research realised that - could reduce or throttle back the mic

manually on the Nikon - and the RODE mic has a +20db switch and a high pass filter to cut out low background noise - this improved the

recording a bit but certainly not the result i was looking for, may sell this mic.

I then came across the "JuicedLink" preamps - and this is supposed to address the problems of recording to DSLR directly.
By increasing the Signal to Noise ratio - they also have phantom power and other features - all this is so there is no post production

syncing of audio and video. but they retail at around 399 i live in ireland so combine shipping - I am thinking i may be able to get
better results by buying a RODE NT5 mic - balanced XLR cable and the Focusrite 2i4 USB Audio Interface. However, this is where I get
worried - I have no experience of DAW'S like Cubase, Ableton, Reaper - and these have a steep learning curve and time investment

attached. Also I have heard of software called PluralEyes or Dual Eyes (although I think this is now integrated into Pluraleyes)
available for 199 dollars which does a quick sync of audio recorded seperatly and video from DSLR - and allows the user to export to
video editing software like FInal Cut, or premiere pro.

Im thinking then I need to buy a DAW to record the audio first (ie. get it into the computer) and then buy something like Pluraleyes to

sync the audio and video (another learning curve) and possibly Pluraleyes cant export a finished .WAV or .MOV (not great on file

formats) because it relies on video editing software like Final Cut (another expenditure) i tried emailing the makers of pluraleyes but

no response.

So I am now confused what to do - I do not want to waste money and want to get it right first time - can anyone help and sorry for the

long post
 
You have it right - in the video world, it's really the wrong place to mount a microphone - on the camera. The video mics, of pretty well all prices are designed to have a bit more 'reach', but the sound is rarely remotely hi-fi quality. There's another current topic that mentions plural eyes (actually, I mentioned it?) but sync is not an issue for 90% of video - especially if you record a bit in front or after where you simply let the camera see your hands - and then clap. The clever pre-amps are really a product to get better audio into cameras that don;t have balanced audio inputs on XLRs, and phantom power, which better mics require. The popular interfaces like you mention, and the mic you talk about are so much better than a short shotgun, mounted in the wrong place. Many of the interfaces come with a cut down free version of the DAW software, I prefer Cubase, but only because I've been using it for over 20 years! Vital equipment are decent monitors - not huge hi-fi ones, but modest speakers, that don't need a sub bass speaker. Use these win the near field and you won't need mega expensive monitors. A decent set of closed back headphone will also help you while setting up the correct place for the microphones.
 
"The clever pre-amps are really a product to get better audio into cameras that don;t have balanced audio inputs on XLRs, and phantom power, which better mics require."


Hi there

are you refering to a product like the juicedlink preamps? there is one of them for 399 dollars but i am thinking that my money would be better spend on an audio interface like the focusrite scarlett 2i4 and maybe a mixed pair of NT5 mics which together come near the same amount - i have a feeling the results will just be better bypassing all audio to the camera - even though the guy selling these preamps say they have pro audio quality - am i right in thinking the camera itself is the week point in this - i read somewhere about 16bit in the camera or something - (i am no sound engineer)
also i read about "balanced" xlr cables - i presume this is important too - but the part that worries me is the software side of it (i am a technophobe) using a DAW and also trying to sync audio and video . I presume a DAW is necessary otherwise there is no way to transfer the recording from the Audio Interface into digital format for the computer to process. Also I read i need to install an ASIO driver for the losest latency with the Focusrite (learning little by little)
 
I do think that a true audio interface with good press will serve u well, especially for classical guitar!!!

The Focusrite is nice, for sure, but I would recommend spending a just a bit more on either RME baby face, Apogee Duet/quartet, UA, Focusrite Forte, etc...

These are very nice and will get u nice relatively hi gain preamps, rock solid conversion, and nice DAC.

Paired with stereo SDCs u can get some excellent results.

Yes, u will need to synch the video and audio in your DAW, not that hard and it will be well worth it as the audio, with the stereo mic placement in the optimal position and distance, will be superior.

I think most of these come with the entry level DAW for example, Steinberg UR22 I think comes with Cubase AI etc.... These DAWs should be plenty godd enough for your purposes and if not get reaper cheap.

Balanced XLRs will be good and just keep the distance from mic to pre as short as possible, but doubt that was the main issue wit the noise. It really is the lack of clean pre gain.
 
"Paired with stereo SDCs u can get some excellent results."
Do you mean condensor mics?


"Balanced XLRs will be good and just keep the distance from mic to pre as short as possible"

Are you refereing to the mics (ie. like RODE NT5 matched pair or/and the XLR Cables which can be balanced as well)

basically everything balanced?


I am thinking of going with Reaper and maybe (but not sure) Sony Vegas Edit edition to sync

Regards
 
yes, small condenser mics. SDCs

Output from mic to preamp is not balanced or unbalanced, I won't go into detail as u can look that up. Balanced output hopefully from your preamps, if u get one of those interface, u will have balanced outputs. Not all pres have balanced outs, my earthworks do not, so in that case, I try to keep the distance from preamp to line in/interface as short as possible and use good cables. Not necessarily a big deal tho, except with long cable distance.

Reaper is good and pretty much any DAW software will be fine these days, just pick one u think will be most user friendly and optimal for u.

U could go portable recorder, but honestly, I never got anything all that close with them, like a Zoom. When i have hi quality condensers plugged into the Zoom, anything above 30% gain starts adding HISS/noise that makes the tracks unusable. They are good, but with classical guitar, u want firs t a good room/acoustics to play. Sound Devices makes some nice units too and they are used by many pros, but never used them. They have a fairly cheap 2 channel unit.

Look online at the distances/placement of the stereo pair in top level recordings of CLASSICAL acoustic guitar. Typical more than 5+ ft away. Hence, i recommend one of the more serious but just two channel interfaces. The ones I mentioned have pretty good clean preamp gain and do AD conversion and DAC for monitoring.

SO u need as good of low noise mics u can afford, high gain clean gain preamps, and you have the start of something potentially excellent. Obviously it can get more elaborate, but this will get u optimal price/performance ratio and might yield some very high quality recordings........well, in conjunction with some killin playin!!!

Regardless of what u do, let us know what u get, use, and how u like the results.
 
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Hi there I'm thinking of getting the rme baby face blue and 1 Neumann km184 as this is as far as my budget can stretch without the other half noticing! Am I right in thinking I can just buy another Neumann at a later date and they are matched. What do you think of that setup?
 
Sounds quite good.
I think the RME is the best of that bunch.
I like both choices, but I still would go Stereo. The Neumanns are nice, obviously mics like Shoeps, DPA are popular and expensive. I use ribbon mice often, but for SDCs I also like using Beyerdynamic MC930 set. I got mine used for a nice price and I like these mics very much. I also have some more hard to find, but cheaper MC83 OPUS83 Beyerdynamics SDCs that I got for a great price, bought 12 or 14 of them at once. I still have 8 of them and use them on lots of sources including acoustic guitar. The AT4050 pair sounds quite nice. I would buy a really nice stereo set instead. once u got money saved sell the stereo set and buy stereo Neumanns. But if u do plan on getting stereo eventually certainly the Neumann is a nice choice, but I just think with classical guitar in particular the stereo mics at 5-10 ft distance would be excellent. This is not to say some great mono guitar recordings have not been done.
 
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