question/rant on charging for studio time

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JG96

JG96

Active member
Hey everyone,
I've been on this forum since I have been 14 and began to piece together a recording studio. 5 years later I am finally getting mixes that I am fairly happy with. I have started recording some local acts in addition to my own band. When I first started working with other artists I thought it would be wise to charge per song rather than per hour. I did this because I know most of the artists I am working with are young and strapped for cash. The issue is now I am feeling frustrated and as if people are taking their sweet time in the studio. Recently I had a drummer come in having never rehearsed a song that we were tracking. Now a tracking session that was supposed to take 1 day is going to take two. I had a similar experience with a guitarist who got too excited with a distortion pedal.

Now I am thinking of charging a flat rate for a sum of time and an additional charge if the artist exceeds that amount of time. What I cannot figure out is how to translate over my rates.
For example if I were to charge 250 dollars for a 10 song album what would be a fair amount of hours to expect a rock band to complete that in?
I'm not trying to charge these artists a ton as I know they are just kids. I just want there to an understanding that I can't have my time wasted. Especially when I'm already charging way less than any other studio in the area.
 
Hmmm. Setting a maximum time is a good idea. But possibly you should do it by track and not by project. A threee song EP is going to take much less time than a 18 song CD.
Couple Ideas:
You said $250 for 10 songs, so work with $25 per track/3 hour maximum and then charge ($15?) per hour over to encourage them to get their act together?
Charge a low flat rate per hour ($10?)

I admire that you're trying to help young artists make their sound heard, but charity begins at home, dude. Don't work for minimum wage. If you got good miking and tracking skills, it's worth something.
Here's one last thought: Set your studio fees in stages. Audition/Tracking/Mixing. Charge a small amount (maybe free) for time to audition the band. Have them select their "leader" at that point. Charge a set hourly rate ($15-20 per hour? That's still really cheap) Work on a per band per album basis. If you like what you hear and it's a new band you're working with, make sure they know you're giving them a great deal, and give them one. When they come back, don't let them talk you into the same deal. Bump it up to the regular price (supply and demand). If you get some deuce guitarist trying to play some cover poorly, charge him your standard rate and let him take 112 takes to get it "right". He may come back, he may not. No big loss there. Once you've got them in the studio (especially a band that's lugged their gear into your space) they're likely to work with you to get it tracked.
When they've tracked their music and they're probably going to run short of funds (it happens a lot), just file their tracks away until they can complete payment on that part. Never give a band raw tracks unless that's what they're paying for. Never give a band any kind of "rough mix" except in maybe 30 second snippets, or you'll see your stuff on YouTube and your name becomes "Mud".
Then when you're ready to start mixing, get their "leader" to produce for you and charge a small amount per track to do so. Sit down with the guy and get his input and feedback on what it should sound like. Give him examples of what different effects/EQs will sound like in his mix and listen to his input as you go through the process. Now you've paid for your time, they've taken the time to do the job right. They get a good mix that sounds like what they had in mind. Everyone's happy.

There's a lot of people here that will probably chime in. Weigh the advice and give it a go. You may record the next "big thing". You may end up 40 years from now still tracking n00b deuce bands. If you love what you're doing, it won't matter! :D

Happy Recording!
 
I think the hourly rate is a better idea for 2 reasons,

1/ the band are under pressure to get it right
2/ you make more money that way
 
Here is the thing you have to remember: If you devalue your services, no one will value your services. I learned this the hard way.

Always make it worth your time to record someone. It is nice that you want to help them out, but make sure that they have enough skin in the game that they take it seriously.
 
^^^^

What Farview said. People don't value what they don't pay for.

You can't offer open ended "per song" services for tracking, I'd think, without getting into this dilemma.... for mixing / mastering, the equation at your end of the market given what you're trying to do is probably a little different.

Discipline and youngish musos probably don't automatically go hand in hand. You'll be doing them a favour by enforcing some, and getting your venture onto a more sustainable business footing, I'd think.
 
As an example: I did a favor for a 2nd tier rock star friend. He needed some demo songs mixed to submit to a label. Of course, he has no money. So I mixed the demos for $25/ea just to help him out.

He gets the deal and now expects me to mix the entire album for $25/song. When I informed him what it would actuall cost, he was shocked and surprised. So now, he wants me to only mix the last two songs, because that is all the money he has, and release the demo mixes I did... Because they are "good enough".

Now I need to explain to him that I don't want my name on the album if he is going to release the scratch mixes, or I need to mix the entire album for the price of mixing two songs.

This isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened. It's pretty funny how the projects that pay full price are well organized and get in and out very efficiently, but the bands that are getting a great deal are the ones that can keep you busy 60 hours a week for a decade.
 
Hey guys. Thanks for the responses! I have been super busy the last few days recording my own band and was too busy to write a response.
Great advice from everyone. I like the idea of charging a fixed rate for a couple hours to incentivize working quickly.
Broken_H I like your pricing strategy. I might use exactly that.

Before it was just an expectation for bands to have their act together. Now I will either save time or make some babysitting money.
My next goal is to work with some more legitimate local bands so I can have some solid music in my portfolio.

Today will hopefully be my final day of recording for a flat rate. I really do wanna help young artists get good sounding albums and I know these guys show potential in songwriting. But between the drummer coming in never playing the song before and the guitarist wanting a bigger sound but not letting me touch his settings (wayyy too much fuzz and bass :spank:) this is taking way too long.
I might whip out my bass big muff for him to try. He would love the bass boost function and then I can use the dry out to re amp some nice sounds later :cool: Sorry for the additional ranting. This 2 song 50 dollar project has already taken me 8 hours and might take another 8 to finish recording and mixing. At this point that isn't minimum wage its slave labor.
 
If you charge per project, then you need to vet the band, get yourself in the role of producer and have the power to be really in charge. If you don't then how can you control the progress. If time becomes unimportant to them, you could be into overdub 24, and still not perfect, so one more, and another. I hate the phrases "good enough" or "that will do" but otherwise, a naff player may just keep going, in hope of not messing up. Some projects just take longer, and others come off quickly, and I have never been able to predict it without knowing the people already. X amount of money for the project, but with a capped maximum hours statement works for me - but I learned a lomng time ago with video, that clients rarely appreciated how longs things take - so I usually now base rates on half or full days, and tell them I expect the job to take so many days, but make sure that they know any changes or additions will mean overruns - this seems to work. So when the client asks if we can do some extra shots at their other depot, say 60 miles away, they know that this means a big extra charge for just a few minutes in the completed project. Just be open, and explain how your system works - tell them previous jobs of this type have taken between X and Y days depending on the speed the band work at. Tell them how much extra days are, in case they need it. Money savvy clients will understand, and when it drifts into overtime, make a joke - it works. The MD telling the bass player we'll just re-record that section - and me whispering in his ear that it's OK with me, but remember that bit was really tricky before so could mean we spend a whole day doing it again - "whole day" sinks in quickly as a cost implication. If you suggest cheaper alternatives, they don't always take them, but they do realise you are trying to work to the budget.
 
As has been pointed out, charge too little or give recording hours away and the client with expect that to be the norm.

I've been burned on more than one occasion (I'm slow to learn) - but I finally decided I would rather record my own material than give my studio time away.

I now charge a flat hourly rate (for tracking & mixing) and that same rate for set-up etc. I may give a band an hour free to set-up/tear down - but if they take their sweet time I charge after the 1st hour.

I will do a "block of time" for a slightly discounted rate - but I rarely do "favors" any more. Some times I will not charge for my mix time, if I choose to experiment with delay settings, etc (which I normally do after the band leaves) - but I found that the more I gave away, the more they wanted for free.
 
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