Question on Tempo (Getting Guitars in sync with Drums)..... Help Appreciated

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larry3349

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I know they said in school there are no stupid questions, but I think this might qualify. -I have searched and cannot seem to find the answer to my question, so I will ask here-

So I record all of my guitars to a click track, and I want them to match up perfectly with the drums *obviously*. I use Reaper as my primary DAW, and their default setting for projects is set to 120 BPM. Here comes the stupid.. SO, If I have a guitar track recorded to a click at 140, do I HAVE to set the drum tempo at exactly 140 as well to be on time?

I am doing a song right now, and the guitars were recorded to a click at 140 BPM, and I have the drums all mapped out at 120. Reaper allows you to just change the tempo of the drums without affecting the other tracks, so I did that and put them at 140 to match the guitars and they just seem way too fast and hyper to me. I put them back down at 120 and they seem to flow better- Is this wrong?

Thank you in advance.
 
Sounds to me like you are going to have to map your drums out at 140. Any change in tempo to a pre arranged track is going to alter the duration of the individual sounds which the drum track comprises of. It's not like having individual hits played at 140 because you are basically going to be reducing the duration of the track elements by somewhere around 15% with out me getting into brain ache at this time of day and providing the exact. All the software will do if I'm understanding it correctly, is maintain the pitch which in theory would maintain the original feel only quicker, but in actuality it doesn't deliver that too well. Drums are probably going to be one of the toughest items to treat in that way by virtue of their characteristics. I have a couple of drum sequencers embedded in other pieces of kit, and it strikes me that changing tempo provides the same/very similar hits with less silence in between, unless one is looking for massive increases in speed.

good luck

Tim
 
Like phrasemaker said, you need to create your drums at the tempo of the song, or they are probably going to sound unnatural, depending on what software you are using.
 
Ok; Thank you guys for the responses; I figured as much. -I think I was just trying to talk myself into not having to re-work the drum tracks, but anything worth doing is worth doing right.

Thank you again-
 
What did you use to record the drums? A drum program VSTi or live? I don't see why changing a tempo of a programmed drum track would seem 'hyper', unless it was just too fast for the song.

Maybe I misunderstood...
:)
 
jimmys69 said:
What did you use to record the drums? A drum program VSTi or live? I don't see why changing a tempo of a programmed drum track would seem 'hyper', unless it was just too fast for the song.

Maybe I misunderstood...
:)
Click to expand...

I couldn't quite figure out what was going on either. But I think that maybe he had a default temp set to 120, but played the drums as if they were to 140. So in one bar of 120, you actually get roughly 1.2 bars of actual 140 playing. Maybe? I'm clutching at straws.
 
Not live- I am using EZdrummer for the drum tracks.

I initially recorded the guitars directly into Reaper using an external metronome (outside of Reaper), and then just started dropping my drum tracks into the project to go with the finished guitars.

It sounded good to me, and I had all the fills and all the stops and starts mapped out right on; THEN I realised the default BPM on Reaper is 120. -I wasn't even paying attention to that before.

It still sounds too hyper (drums too fast for the song) to my ear with the drums at 140, but maybe that's because I had grown accustomed to hearing them at 120?

I just want everything to match up perfectly.
 
So wait, you placed your tracks into another program, with a different BPM? You gotta get that stuff worked out in advance man. I can't even hope to find another way to straighten that out, if you already made adjustments, and didn't get everything in sync before saving.

Starting over is the best route IMO. Though, I am still not understanding what you are doing...
 
jimmys69 said:
Starting over is the best route IMO. Though, I am still not understanding what you are doing...
Click to expand...

I think this is the most effective way of dealing with it. Start over.

Sort out the tempo beforehand, then go with that right from the start.

Is there any reason why you can't record your guitars into Reaper straight away?

There are facilities within Reaper to stretch things out (or vice versa), either midi or audio. However, that those should be facilities for minor corrections, not wholesale re-alignment.
 
No; I am sorry if I am not being clear.

I recorded the guitars directly into Reaper using an external physical metronome that I own played at exactly 140 perfectly on time.

Then I started programming drums to those already recorded guitars with EZdrummer in Reaper.

I had the stops, the starts, and the fills so they all matched the guitars. After I did this, I realised the Reaper project BPM was set at the default 120.

So there is a 20 BPM difference between the recorded guitars, and the drums.

I appreciate the help- I am sorry if I am not articulating correctly- this is as clear as I can say it.
 
I programmed the drums to be playing the exact right amount of measures with the guitars- I'm just assuming they're hitting slightly behind the beat because they are 20 BPM slower.

Which to me still sounds better than when I speed them up to match the guitars. They sound groovier, and heavier- and too hyper-fast and unrealistic when I speed them up. Maybe my ear is off.
 
Actually, this shouldn't be so hard to remedy. I know how I would do it in Cubase, but not a Reaper guru by any means.

Likely there is a way to either change the BPM of your project, then import the guitars later. Or stretch one of the parts to match. Keep in mind, that you will never want to 'extend' a track 20 BPM. It will likely sound like ass. Rather take the track that is too slow, and 'speed' it up.

20 BPM is a huge amount to attempt to warp in time. Doing it over is likely the best option. Though again, I am not sure I understand completely what it is you have going on here.

You could post the two tracks, and maybe we could give some better insight.
 
I agree with what you are saying- I think it makes more sense to just do it over. My ear must not be catching the difference between the drum and guitars, but obviously it's got to be there with that big of a BPM lag between them.

I only made this mistake with a couple tracks, and I don't want to fudge with it forever or warp it to make it fit.

Again, I aprreciate the time and help from you guys- There is such a massive learning curve with doing this digital recording, but this is a mistake I for sure won't make again. ;)

I will just re-record this one with everything set up correctly from the start.

Many thanks for the help and input.
 
I've never had that problem in Sonar. I just change the project's tempo and the drums (midi) change nicely.

What you can't do is change the project's tempo and expect audio tracks to change with it - but that's not what you're doing. I hope. Are you sure you haven't already bounced the midi drums to audio?
 
Never use an external metronome. Even if it's "perfect", because nothing really is. Always use the daw metronome because that's the only way everything will always be in sync.

Do this experiment, set your external metronome to a bpm and set the daw to the same. record the metronome for 10 minutes and see if the metronome still lines up perfectly with the grid. It won't.

It doesn't have to be off by much before it messes with the feel, and since you played the guitars to something other than the finished drums, you might be behind the 8 ball with that anyway.
 
I can not participa

Certainly. All above told the truth. Let's discuss this question. Here or in PM.
 
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