question-mixin/mastering

[kunalkho]

i had another thread openn about somehting else, and ask this questioned there but becuz the thread was so big from the other question i guess many ppl didnt respond....
my question is....after im done reocrding, before i do anything to the track, i listen to it, and it sounds like u can tell its 2 diff tracks. Like if i use an instrumental like from 50 cent suppose, u can tell that it isnt my vocals originally on the beat. I dont know if this make sense but it feels like my vocals r infront of the beat.....they dont sound unified into one. my question is

1.is this normal?

2. And if so what do i do to fix it, in the earier thread when i asked this, i got a reply that its wut mixing does, but then another site i read its wut masterin does, when talkin about unifiying the tracks.

3. and if its not normal what could i be doing wrong??


thank u

 

[Massive Master]

This is what the POUTS would call a "teachable moment" (but without the whole side-show).

Certainly not a mastering issue, but in many cases, a by-product of "mastering" at the wrong phase in the project.

Trying to "add something" to a source that's been hyper-compressed (a.k.a. "mastered" for lack of a better term), it's nearly impossible to make that additional source "gel" (again, lack of a better term) with the original source.

I do a lot of work on beats - And I always warn about how angry people are going to be if those beats come in at "commercial levels."

You're adding something with natural dynamics to something where the dynamics have been compromised to a point where it's anything but natural... You're almost forced into screwing up the dynamics of this secondary source to match with the primary source - Of course, that will change dynamically (no pun intended) as the sources now interact with each other. So what you're coming up against isn't abnormal.

Side-noting (teachable moment): This is totally about compression abuse. Too much, or at the wrong stage, or not fitting with the source, or a combination of the three.

This is why you rarely (if ever) want to compress during tracking. You mess with dynamics in the context of the mix or you wind up with what you're coming up against - or worse. Also why you never want to permanently compromise the dynamics of the sum of the source until it's *done* - and I mean "done" as in "getting it ready for the shelf" (mastering).

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

This is what the POUTS would call a "teachable moment"

Oh sure, just what we need, socialized mastering! Here come the dynamics death squads! (J/K!)

I'm just curious, as to whether "POUTS" was a purposeful mis-spelling, in which case it's pretty damn funny, or an accidental typo, which makes it only slightly less funny.

Seriously though, you nailed that post right on the head, IMHO. It's one thing to sample a beat and crunch it after mixing, it's another thing to sample an already crunched beat and try to mix it. Very difficult to do.

G.

 

[Waltz Mastering]

Like if i use an instrumental like from 50 cent suppose, u can tell that it isnt my vocals originally on the beat. I dont know if this make sense but it feels like my vocals r infront of the beat.....they dont sound unified into one.

It almost sounds like your talking about the timing of your vocal against the beat.

That your vocals are in "front of the beat" They don't "fit in the groove"

If this is the case, it means your "rushing the beat", and need to slow down or need to lay back your vocal delivery on the beat.

You could also be talking that your vocals are In front of the beat, meaning "loud", in which case you can compress them and pull them back into the track when mixing.

If your talking about unifying the two tracks you just want to blend the two. If your using an industry beat or any beat you need to make sure the vocal is recorded well. If this is done, there's very little you need to do in the mix stage of a beat/vocal. light compression and eq.


I think if you know how to use a compressor, tracking with it should never be a problem.

 

[scott free]

I wonder if latency in the headphones is causing the vocal "pocket" issue.

Scott.

 

[NL5]

TTrying to "add something" to a source that's been hyper-compressed (a.k.a. "mastered" for lack of a better term), it's nearly impossible to make that additional source "gel" (again, lack of a better term) with the original source.

It almost sounds like your talking about the timing of your vocal against the beat.

Yeah, I'm curious as to which it is, although I think most rappers refer to a "beat' as a backing track, not the tempo of a track.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

it sounds like u can tell its 2 diff tracks...u can tell that it isnt my vocals originally on the beat.

it feels like my vocals r infront of the beat.....they dont sound unified into one.

I'm not sure about it, but it sounds to me like it's a track blending problem, not a timing or latency problem.

if you isolate the phrases "on the beat" and "in front of the beat", yeah, it sounds like a timing issue, assuming one is using classic terminology with "the beat" meaning the timing or tempo of the song. But add more context: "It isn't my vocals originally on the beat", and like NL5 says, add in the fact that he's probably using hip hop street lingo (he's using a $0.50 track) with "the beat" meaning the rhythm tracks, it sounds to me like he means it sounds as though his vocals sound like a different production laid over the backing rhythm track, and "in front of the beat" means "laid on top" of the rhythm track and not in advance of it, therefore his classifiction of it not sounding "unified into one" mix.

I guess we need kunalkho to clarify it for us. Trying to stay away from junk food vocabulary like "the beat" would help clarify things too.

G.

 

[kunalkho]

ok well when i say beat i do mean in "rap lingo" so i mean i dont know how to clarify better than like the "instrument track" or "instrumental track" is lets say originally used by Eminem or 50 Cent, so i take their "instrumental track" and rap my vocals on top, but it sounds different u can tell a difference like that ia not the original vocalist on the beat ( i dont mean skill wise). TO me it sounds like the instrumental track and my vocal track have a different quality and the mixing quality is diff, from the VERY little i know about mxing/mastering it sounds like it might have to do wid my compression and EQ, becuz it does seem to get ebtter wid me adding some compression (keep in mind ive nver mastered/mixed/done compression or nething like that)

i dont know if my equipment would matter so just FYI, im using AKG perception 120, digidesign mbox mini, garageband, and of coruse pop screen and all that....

( i do have a freind who has been doing music for alot loger than me, and has also learned quite a bit about engineering and mixing/mastering, but he uses alot of the same equipment...(behringer b1 nd digidesign and cool edit) and he is able to make his sound almost to radio/studio quality and i mean in the way of blending everything together...but sadly hes in jail so cant really ask him