Question for Central Station Users

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toilinthedark

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Was considering buying a CS and would like to avoid buying a mixer. One drawback to the CS setup seems to be in tracking vocals. Generally a vocalist will want to hear their track 'wetted' up in the headphone mix, but I would want to print a dry track to the hard drive. With a mixer it is easy to use an outboard processor and a buss, but I don't see how to do it with the CS unless I use software processing. I believe this would cause an unworkable amount of latency.
How do you CS users do this?
Thanks

Gear:
Mac G4
Logic Pro 6
Delta 1010
dbx 576 Channel Strip
dynaudio bm6a monitors
 
The CS is not a mixer in any way, shape or form - it's a line source and monitor switcher..........
 
Related Big Knob question

The customer service guy at Presonus told me that the Big Knob was capable of solving my problem. I have looked at the Big Knob specs and back panel connections and I don't see that capability.
Anyone able to use the Big Knob to overcome the problem from my previous post?
 
Thanks, Bruce

I realize that it is not a signal mixer. The CS is meant to perform the function of the studio control section of a mixer in a DAW based studio. It seems sortof redundant to have a CS and a mixer.
 
The Big Knob colors the sound pretty dramatically. I would look for another option. Also look at the back of the Big Knob. To cable that sucker you would need $75 worth of cables, maybe more and they would be running over your desk.
 
toilinthedark said:
It seems sortof redundant to have a CS and a mixer.
Click to expand...
It isn't redundant if you want to set up a monitor mix with effects outside of your DAW.... why not set up the monitor mix within your DAW in the first place?
 
Good Input

Thanks, Middleman. I was leaning toward the CS because of the passive signal path.

Bruce:
Are you saying to set up the monitor mix in the DAW, but send the vocal track to an external processor instead of using software processing?
I could see where this would reduce latency issues, but I would still have to mix this back in with the cue mix of the rest of the instruments before sending it to the headphones.
??
 
True - to get around the latency you'd have no choice but to go the external mixer with outboard effects route.
 
I've got a CS and I love it. For Vox I set up the vox mic into my sytek and into my computer, next I set up a second mic next to the vox mic and run it into my cheap mixer. I take a line out from the back of the cs and plug it into the mixer, so I get the music, and adjust my monitor mix from there with no latency. Hope that wasn't too confusing!
 
I have found a way that works for me to get a vocal effect on a live input while at the same time listening to the original dry vocal. For example, lets use a vocal track.

1. In Nuendo I set up two tracks instead of one, both set to record the same input.

2. I monitor the actual vocal straight from my console so there is no latency. I set up the keeper track in Nuendo to NOT input monitor.

3. On the second track I set a reverb up on one of the aux sends. At this point I turn the output channel of the reverb track all the way down in Nuendo. Then activate the reverb send in Pre-Fade mode, and activate input monitoring on that channel.

This allows me to use the console to monitor all trcks being recorded without latency, and then also allows me to have a software reverb on it while it is being tracked. Technically, there is latency, but on a time based effect like reverb or delay, it isn't an issue. Just make adjustments to predelay based on your latency.

This can alternatively be taken one step further by sending an aux send from whatever console youa re using to an input and setup the "dummy" or "reverb" track the same way. You can even setup another master ouput in your program and return the reverb only back to your console.
 
toilinthedark said:
I realize that it is not a signal mixer. The CS is meant to perform the function of the studio control section of a mixer in a DAW based studio. It seems sortof redundant to have a CS and a mixer.
Click to expand...

Except that most small mixers in home/project studios don't really have a full master section. What you could do is purchase a very small mixer, like one of those 6 channel Behringer things that cost $69. I think Alesis and Yamaha make similarily priced super compact mixers. It would basically be for easing your monitor needs. If you are recording instrumentalists or singers it is something that would be very helpful.
 
More Input needed

Thanks for everybody's input, so far.

1) If I buy a small mixer for external processing, would I split the output of the dbx channel strip (one leg into the DAW and one into a line level input on a mixer channel) and return a monitor mix to 2 channels of the mixer from the DAW? Then send this mix to the CS cue input?

2) I am in need of 2 more preamp channels. So it would make sense to buy a small mixer with decent preamps. Any recommendations for a small mixer with good preamps, but without any master section control? If I buy a CS I wouldn't need the master section of a mixer.
 
Well, I may have mis-spoke slightly when using the the words "master section". Pretty much any mixer will have a master section of some sort, although in small mixers it will be basic. I think what I was referring to might be more commonly called the "studio control section" or something like that. What you get in more full featured mixers are features like talkback, multiple headphone outs, control room outs, various helpful features that route the audio around. That's what you get with the CS and other units like it.

So most small mixers will not have those kinds of features, although they will have a master section of some sort.

I'd take a look at some of those small Soundcarft mixers if it was me. There's the M, E, and SX series.
 
Middleman said:
The Big Knob colors the sound pretty dramatically. I would look for another option. Also look at the back of the Big Knob. To cable that sucker you would need $75 worth of cables, maybe more and they would be running over your desk.
Click to expand...

Really.. hmm.

The Behringer mixer I've been using to do this probably does the same. Heh.
 
geet73 said:
Really.. hmm.

The Behringer mixer I've been using to do this probably does the same. Heh.
Click to expand...


Absolutely. The Presonus is about the cheapest thing out there that does not degrade the signal. If you have a mixer under $1000, take it out of the path of your monitors. The more pristine you can keep this link, the more accurate you can mix. Most low priced mixers will color the sound or flatten it sonically messing with your sound image. Straight to speakers from the soundcard is always the poor man's hedge vs. using a cheap mixer to control things.

The problem however, is that you will have to rely on your internal soundcard mixer software which can catch you off guard if the levels are too high. But you do get the best path for judging sound. That's why the Central Station is so popular, it gives you an external volume control for speakers, headphone feed, and a third feed, if you so desire, and there is very little alteration of the signal.
 
I can't do this without something turn my monitors down and up. I use my monitors as my computer speakers, I listen to EVERYTHING through them. I really can't get by at night when my parents are asleep to reach around back and turn them down really quickly. They won't stand for it. Eh.

I'm doing alright with them like this, as of now. When I get the money, I'll pick something up to help me out. I'm looking to buy a better interface than what I've got now. I've been considering the MOTU 828. It's got a monitor volume control right on it.
 
Yeah, well, keep in mind you talking to a guy who obsesses about these things. For learning your gear and developing your ears, as well as learning about how to craft a song, it's not imperative. When you get to the point that you want to take your craft to another level, then you can worry about monitoring chains.
 
One cool feature with the Central Station is the dim switch. This is very convenient for checking mixes at different levels which is important for setting reverb and overall give and take decisions to be made on balance within the mix at different playback volumes.

In my opinion you cannot properly mix vocals at all without monitoring at different levels and checking often. They could be buried at high volume or way too hot at low volume. The CS allows you to consistently switch between two volumes, the dim being about -20dB difference.

War
 
Middleman said:
Absolutely. The Presonus is about the cheapest thing out there that does not degrade the signal.
Click to expand...


There are a few Coleman's that are about the same price minus the D/A converter

and

I don't know if Bob Katz would agree that the presonus doesn't degrades the sound ;) hell he said the Cranesong Avocet degrades the sound :eek: not by much though :D
 
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