Question for a Luthier or Repair Person

[BrentDomann]

I bought a Les Paul VM yesterday, and the fretboard looked a little light and dry. I purchased some Kyser lemon oil with the guitar, and followed the directions applying the oil to the fretboard. I tried one or two pumps into a clean old t-shirt, and rubbed that into the board. The oil was gone after a single fret. So I progressively upped the number of pumps of oil into the rag, and eight pumps was enough to allow me to apply oil quickly to the whole fretboard (or close to it).

Anyway, the directions on the bottle say to wipe the oil on, polish it/rub it in, and wipe of any excess. I must have done three applications of oil and there still isn't any excess. In fact, the board still looks dry.

Should I keep going? I stopped because I didn't want to saturate the wood with anything harmful, but I want to make sure that the wood is properly conditioned.

 

[muttley600]

You wont saturate the board. I'm assuming it's a rosewood fretboard? Ebony will take much less oil because it is much tighter grained.

You can put as much on as you want and wipe off the excess. The old mantra for oiling wood as I was taught years and years ago goes like this,

Once a hour for a day, Once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year and once a year for the rest of it's life. Now with a guitar fretboard you get more wear than furniture so, load up as much as you want and let it sink in for half an hour. Rub in with a clean cloth. Do it again maybe three times first day then once a day for week. Following that you can do it every time you change strings. Lemon oil won't harm anything on your guitar.

 

[TelePaul]

You wont saturate the board. I'm assuming it's a rosewood fretboard? Ebony will take much less oil because it is much tighter grained.

You can put as much on as you want and wipe off the excess. The old mantra for oiling wood as I was taught years and years ago goes like this,

Once a hour for a day, Once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year and once a year for the rest of it's life. Now with a guitar fretboard you get more wear than furniture so, load up as much as you want and let it sink in for half an hour. Rub in with a clean cloth. Do it again maybe three times first day then once a day for week. Following that you can do it every time you change strings. Lemon oil won't harm anything on your guitar.

Wow, that's alot of oil! Not to contradict you, because I'm sure you're right, but I'd read lemon oils long term effects are as yet unknown.

 

[muttley600]

Wow, that's alot of oil! Not to contradict you, because I'm sure you're right, but I'd read lemon oils long term effects are as yet unknown.

Frankly the oils in your skin are far more damaging than the lemon oil.

Oil has been used on timber for hundreds, no thousands of years. Oil and Earth pigments were the earliest finishes ever used on instruments. You need to wipe off the excess each time but you'll do no harm at all.

A brief description of oil and it's properties as far as timber is concerned.

There are two types of oil, or more correctly a spectrum on which all oils fit. That is drying and non drying oils. The ones we use in finishing are non drying oils predominantly such as walnut, lemon and rosin oils. Linseed oil is either boiled or raw. The modern difference is that one drys quickly one doesn't dry, well not very quickly. Once upon a time it was boiled these days additives are included to make it dry. Oil has been used as a carrier and a constituent of varnishes for hundreds of years as well. Turpentine and oil being used as the base for modern oil varnishes used on violins. The best non drying oil is virgin olive oil but lemon oil is thinner smells better and is sold in neat little bottles cheaper than extra virgin olive oil.

I seriously wouldn't worry about any long term effects of lemon oil, especially on a fingerboard. Go for it if thats what you want.

 

[TelePaul]

Frankly the oils in your skin are far more damaging than the lemon oil.

Oil has been used on timber for hundreds, no thousands of years. Oil and Earth pigments were the earliest finishes ever used on instruments. You need to wipe off the excess each time but you'll do no harm at all.

A brief description of oil and it's properties as far as timber is concerned.

There are two types of oil, or more correctly a spectrum on which all oils fit. That is drying and non drying oils. The ones we use in finishing are non drying oils predominantly such as walnut, lemon and rosin oils. Linseed oil is either boiled or raw. The modern difference is that one drys quickly one doesn't dry, well not very quickly. Once upon a time it was boiled these days additives are included to make it dry. Oil has been used as a carrier and a constituent of varnishes for hundreds of years as well. Turpentine and oil being used as the base for modern oil varnishes used on violins. The best non drying oil is virgin olive oil but lemon oil is thinner smells better and is sold in neat little bottles cheaper than extra virgin olive oil.

I seriously wouldn't worry about any long term effects of lemon oil, especially on a fingerboard. Go for it if thats what you want.

Ah...is it a varnish? I always thought it closed pitted rosewood?

 

[muttley600]

Ah...is it a varnish? I always thought it closed pitted rosewood?

It's not a varnish no. It is a constituent of many older and some newer varnishes. All those old Strads and most violins, cello's etc since have been finished with an oil varnish. That oil has been treated or mixed with other substances to dry into a hard coating along with things like rosin oils which is a refined version of that gunk you see oozing out of the knots on softwood. The oils used such as walnut oil, linseed oil, etc are non drying oils in that they don't dry well on there own. That was the point. Lemon oil is a very fine non drying oil. It will fill the porers of the wood without clogging them and resist the ingress of water and to some extent protect against light and heat. As a finish oil alone is not too good thats why you need to keep replenishing it. Think about your garden furniture, often teak oil or similar is recommended because it is very good at protecting against moisture. so it doesn't close pitted or open grain it just protects timbers that may be vulnerable to moisture. It provides a minimum level of protection.

Water causes wood to swell because it gets into the cell walls and into the open cells at the end grain. Oil helps in stopping this. You don't want a drying oil because it would dry into a sticky mess after a while. Thats why light non drying oils are the best choice.

Just to add if you think about most of the durable exterior woods such as cedar, teak, aframosia, etc they all have a very high intrinsic oil content as a natural preservative. I'm not saying you want to flood your fingerboard in the stuff, but if you did you wouldn't do too much harm.

 

[goldtopchas]

I find that the lemon oil that is marketed is mostly solvent and not very much oil. I like to apply liberally with a rag and scrub off the grime right away taking advantage of the solvent, then re-apply pretty heavy and let it soak in. What is left on the rag evaporates and leaves mostly oil, so I re-apply with that if needed. (turned over to a clean spot)

 

[MCI2424]

I bought a Les Paul VM yesterday, and the fretboard looked a little light and dry. I purchased some Kyser lemon oil with the guitar, and followed the directions applying the oil to the fretboard. I tried one or two pumps into a clean old t-shirt, and rubbed that into the board. The oil was gone after a single fret. So I progressively upped the number of pumps of oil into the rag, and eight pumps was enough to allow me to apply oil quickly to the whole fretboard (or close to it).

Anyway, the directions on the bottle say to wipe the oil on, polish it/rub it in, and wipe of any excess. I must have done three applications of oil and there still isn't any excess. In fact, the board still looks dry.

Should I keep going? I stopped because I didn't want to saturate the wood with anything harmful, but I want to make sure that the wood is properly conditioned.

This is why I make all my fretboards from lemon trees.

 

[stevieb]

This is why I make all my fretboards from lemon trees.

Again, just can't stop...

"Lemon tree, very pretty,
and the lemon flower is sweet.
But the fruit of the poor lemon
is impossible to eat."

I read somewhere that lemon oil is NOT from either lemon trees or lemons, but is named that because it is scented to smell like lemons. Don't know the truth, tho...

 

[muttley600]

Again, just can't stop...

"Lemon tree, very pretty,
and the lemon flower is sweet.
But the fruit of the poor lemon
is impossible to eat."

I read somewhere that lemon oil is NOT from either lemon trees or lemons, but is named that because it is scented to smell like lemons. Don't know the truth, tho...

Its a be blend mostly mineral oils and scented lemon oil. Sometimes it has a little solvent carrier in it. Don't believe a lot of the bunk you read about lemon oil being acidic and damaging the guitar. That would be lemon juice. Lemon oil is just that, extracted oil, and is no more acidic than olive oil. The carrier is often a petroleum distillate like naphtha so take care on some finishes. You'll probably be told by the maker if it would be a problem but if your not sure check.

 

[Light]

Kyser's Lem-Oil is mostly mineral oil, with just a bit of lemon oil added for the smell. Your never going to hurt anything with it, unless you try to drink it - in which case you will probably just have a really greasy shit the next day. (Not that I'm recommending you start drinking the stuff, mind you).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi