Question about Vocal Compression

Bane01

Bane01

Like Yeah!
Hi,

Going through one of my later projects, I've noticed that compression of vocals is bringing out some of the quieter sounds (which makes sense being that we are dealing with RMS volume). But a lot of times it brings out sibilant phrases and especially deep breathes between phrases. What threshold do you guys use to minimize this kind of thing?

I've though about taking breath's out completely, but in a sparse ballad type mix it really sounds unnatural to remove them.

Apologies if this has been covered lately.
 
So are you saying that I should only use enough compression to tame the peaks? I do most of my volume control with faders, but I have really dynamic vocals and they waver so much it totally screws up my mix.
 
I'm saying that you use the compression for the sound of the compression -- You're compressing the dynamic range of the signal -- It's not the same as changing the volume.

But I am saying to do the vast (VAST) majority of your volume control using faders (or volume envelopes, assuming you're ITB).

THAT ALL SAID: I mean, if the vocals takes are "out of control" then you need to fix that at the source.
 
Assuming you are using computer software, you should edit the track to get the volume of the performance more in line with what it needs to be for each part. Then add the compressor to make the vocal a little more solid. Don't let the reduction get much more than 4-6db in.

No on can tell you the threshold setting, because that completely depends on the level of the audio you are compressing. What you need ti do is shoot for an amount of reduction and set the threshold so that happens. It sounds like you were so far into the reduction that all the cap that you really don't eat to hear was jumping up. That means the threshold was too low. It also probably means that the release was too fast and the reduction was recovering so fast that it was effectively turning up background garbage between words.

If the attack is too fast, he beginnings of words will get goofy sounding too. Slow it down and don't let it compress so much.

If the vocal is really so all over the place, it might be worth resinging. Everyone talks about dynamic performances being a good thing, but the dynamics have to make sense in the context of the dynamics of the rest of the song. Its not enough to sing quieter on the quiet bits and louder on the loud bits, you have to sing so that the performance fits into the song...quiet, but not too quiet...loud, but not too loud.
 
Edit and cut out the silent/breath parts between vocal lines. Automate the volume of your vocal to get a more consistent level in relation to the track. Compress if needed.
 
I see some disagreement approaching.

On the vast majority of people I record, the dynamic range of the vocals is simply too much with intermittant high, random peaks. For this reason, I do almost always use a little bit of compression to "tame the peaks". It's all well and good to say "fix it at source" but <best McCoy voice> I'm a recording engineer, not a singing teacher.

However, I'll stress that I keep the compression light and subtle--and don't overdo the make up gain.

At this point, I move into agreement with Massive Master. The vast majority of level changes on vocals should be achieved by fader automation or volume envelopes. Don't be afraid to be picky--quite often I'm making syllable by syllable minor adjustments to make the vocal sit exactly how I want with the instruments.
 
Here's what I find works for me:

Use whatever/as much compression as you need to get the sound that you want.

Use a de-esser if needed (dynamic EQs such as the Brainwork dynEQ work great too - super flexible)

Then use automation to bring down the breaths and sibilance. I have found that using automation before the compressor makes this sound much more natural.
 
xander.moser said:
Here's what I find works for me:

Use whatever/as much compression as you need to get the sound that you want.

Use a de-esser if needed (dynamic EQs such as the Brainwork dynEQ work great too - super flexible)

Then use automation to bring down the breaths and sibilance. I have found that using automation before the compressor makes this sound much more natural.
Click to expand...

I was just reading an article where (I got it from one of the article links from the board) where he uses a De-esser after the compresion, but before reverb and delay (which makes sense) as the compressor will bring out more sibilants.
 
Bane01 said:
Hi,

Going through one of my later projects, I've noticed that compression of vocals is bringing out some of the quieter sounds (which makes sense being that we are dealing with RMS volume). But a lot of times it brings out sibilant phrases and especially deep breathes between phrases. What threshold do you guys use to minimize this kind of thing?

I've though about taking breath's out completely, but in a sparse ballad type mix it really sounds unnatural to remove them.

Apologies if this has been covered lately.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you've got the compressor working too hard. I'd start by turning the ratio down before setting the threshold, then control your singing as Farview suggested.

Bobbsy said:
but <best McCoy voice> I'm a recording engineer, not a singing teacher.
Click to expand...

I don't think you would be stepping into teacher territory by telling the singer to control dynamics. Part of the engineer's job is to try to get a good take from the performer. If a singer is pouring their soul out into a song, then they probably won't have an objective view of how their performance is captured. The engineer should speak up unless there is a producer leaning over his shoulder. Then it would be on the producer to tell Nelly to calm the eff down.

But you're a seasoned veteran, you know all this already. :)
 
Chili said:
I don't think you would be stepping into teacher territory by telling the singer to control dynamics. Part of the engineer's job is to try to get a good take from the performer. If a singer is pouring their soul out into a song, then they probably won't have an objective view of how their performance is captured. The engineer should speak up unless there is a producer leaning over his shoulder. Then it would be on the producer to tell Nelly to calm the eff down.

But you're a seasoned veteran, you know all this already. :)
Click to expand...

This might almost make a topic in it's own right, discussing the subtleties of working with other vocalists and musicians. I always find that there has to be a balance between putting up with less-than-perfect dynamics (or whatever) and risking making the singer too self conscious thereby taking the "edge" off the performance.

Perhaps my bad joke should have been "I'm a recording engineer, not a psychologist" but every vocalist is different. With some you can just be brutally honest, with others you have to find a softly-softly approach ("that was fantastic...just for safety can we try another take with you singing more softly/louder/on key/sounding like a human"). They're all different.

However, my personal preference is to find technical solutions to issues rather than affect the performance energy by pushing too hard.

Oh, and a great trick to use on dynamic range issues it to use 2 identical mics--one up close and personal and the other a foot or 15 inches back. In the mix use the close mic for quiet stuff and do a quick crossfade to the more distant mic when the belting starts.
 
The is singing teacher and then there is proper microphone technique. The latter has to be learned just as diligently as singing or playing an instrument.







Sent from my X32 console using hellonwheels.
 
I've only ever recorded myself and you can imagine the ego I have to deal with there.... :D

But seriously, when I'm lazy, I'll fix it in the mix. When I want it done right, I'll listen to the take and retrack if necessary. If I were to go into a pro studio and the engineer gave me some tips, I'd take them gracefully and try to do better. He's the one who does this day in and day out and should know what is needed for a good recording. But I can imagine the different personalities that walk through the door of a pro studio and the difficulties that come with them.
 
Thank you guys for all the great infos! I'll be referencing this thread for a good while to come!
 
Mr Clean said:
Edit and cut out the silent/breath parts between vocal lines. Automate the volume of your vocal to get a more consistent level in relation to the track. Compress if needed.
Click to expand...

I recently started doing this to all my vocs. It really does make a big difference. I do this for both voiceover work and vocals for music.
 
Mr Clean said:
Edit and cut out the silent/breath parts between vocal lines.
Click to expand...
I tend to do this but it needs to be done well or it sounds awful. I've been watching a whole load of "Columbo" movies on telly over the last couple of months and I notice that where there are silent bits, they cut them right out so you hear total silence. But fractionally before speech begins, you have this rush of hiss. If you're listening at a quiet level, you probably won't hear it but with the volume up, it sounds horrible. I've always sought to avoid that kind of thing.
 
grimtraveller said:
I tend to do this but it needs to be done well or it sounds awful. I've been watching a whole load of "Columbo" movies on telly over the last couple of months and I notice that where there are silent bits, they cut them right out so you hear total silence. But fractionally before speech begins, you have this rush of hiss. If you're listening at a quiet level, you probably won't hear it but with the volume up, it sounds horrible. I've always sought to avoid that kind of thing.
Click to expand...

That's why you're supposed to record some "room tone" with each scene, to fill in the edits with natural ambient noise. Same goes for audio books, record some "silence" through the mic each session and drop that in the edits.
 
DM60 said:
I was just reading an article where (I got it from one of the article links from the board) where he uses a De-esser after the compresion, but before reverb and delay (which makes sense) as the compressor will bring out more sibilants.
Click to expand...

Sometimes that works too, it all depends on the recorded vocal track.

It is definitely true that compressions with certain settings brings out sibilance.

I have found that automating the S's before heavy compression gives me more natural sounding S's because they are then being compressed much less. If you automate the S's after compression, then you have a quieter, compressed S sound. It's different. One isn't always better than the other, so try both and see what works for your song!
 
I always try to put the de esser before the compressor because it sounds better that way, most of the time.
 
You can also use a limiter before the compressor. It would tame the sudden peaks and then the compressor will have to compress a more gentle signal.
Also you dont have to reduce lots of dbs. Up to 6db is usually a nice starting point, experiment with the attack and the ratio knob.
A compressed signal of -5db reduction with a proper attack and ratio would sound better than -12db of Gain Reduction with wrong attacks and ratios.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top