Question about power supply...800mA too much?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Drummerbones
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Yeah, it would make no difference as the device only draws what it needs.

Yes indeed........ under proper working conditions;
but all it takes is the circuit to 'go bad', (completely short, or part thereof), and you'll have the 'capacity' ,or, the power-supply's full potential working against you....ie:even more smoke out of the box.:rolleyes:
This is one reason why I implied earlier, that I'd prefer a 'matching' power supply (working current wise) for any given device(s)...

oh...that and wormholes.

Hope that seems reasonable.
Cheers.
 
Some Richard Cranium who i will remain nameless gave me bad rep points for implying that using a higher voltage transformer will damage electronics that require a 9 volt transformer all I have to say to this person is hook up a 14V transformer to one of your pedals then come back and tell me the majick smoke did not roll out of the pedal rendering it useless.
and to beat it off he did not post in the thread so I can return the favor:mad:
End Rant.
 
Some dickhead who i will remain nameless gave me bad rep points for implying that using a higher voltage transformer will damage electronics that require a 9 volt transformer all I have to say to this person is hook up a 14V transformer to one of your pedals then come back and tell me the majick smoke did not roll out of the pedal rendering it useless.
and to beat it off he did not post in the thread so I can return the favor:mad:
End Rant.

yeah...that'd be right....we seem to have a few electrical engineers on this subject!!.:rolleyes:....

I'm sure we were talking about current...?

Still, it should never be suggested that it's fine sticking more than 9volts, regardless of current capacity, into a pedal you actually like or enjoy using, or wish to keep!!...as in your 'neg-rep' situation.
Let's try to keep the 'majick' in the box!....I agree!:):)
 
yeah...that'd be right....we seem to have a few electrical engineers on this subject!!.:rolleyes:....

I'm sure we were talking about current...?

Still, it should never be suggested that it's fine sticking more than 9volts, regardless of current capacity, into a pedal you actually like or enjoy using, or wish to keep!!...as in your 'neg-rep' situation.
Let's try to keep the 'majick' in the box!....I agree!:):)

LOL:D
and yes I was talking about the electrical current that is being transformed from the 120 VAC output.
if I have that worded right:o
 
Some Richard Cranium who i will remain nameless gave me bad rep points for implying that using a higher voltage transformer will damage electronics that require a 9 volt transformer all I have to say to this person is hook up a 14V transformer to one of your pedals then come back and tell me the majick smoke did not roll out of the pedal rendering it useless.
and to beat it off he did not post in the thread so I can return the favor:mad:
End Rant.

ok ya want a shot at me ya got it ass... where's your original post... we were talking about more current than necessary to run the unit... and only a twit would try to hook a 9V device to 14V so where's that leave your argument... and how many times did you do the experiment before you decided it wasn't a good idea... look asshole i'll put my electronics credentials up against anyone here... and not just theorehtical (sp?).... i have done factory authorized service for crown qsc yamaha korg roland marshall fender boogie soundcraft allen and heath and many others... so i have some idea what i'm talking about... as to your neg rep... unlike others around here that use the rep system to tag their friends i try to use it to award good answers and hopefully end misinformation which i beleive in this case you were spewing.... grow the fuk up....
 
ok ya want a shot at me ya got it ass... where's your original post... we were talking about more current than necessary to run the unit... and only a twit would try to hook a 9V device to 14V so where's that leave your argument... and how many times did you do the experiment before you decided it wasn't a good idea... look asshole i'll put my electronics credentials up against anyone here... and not just theorehtical (sp?).... i have done factory authorized service for crown qsc yamaha korg roland marshall fender boogie soundcraft allen and heath and many others... so i have some idea what i'm talking about... as to your neg rep... unlike others around here that use the rep system to tag their friends i try to use it to award good answers and hopefully end misinformation which i beleive in this case you were spewing.... grow the fuk up....

oh well, I think it's all sorted now.
Nice skill background there DC.
I am a great believer in that with electronics (be it repair, which I too am involved in) or design and construction...that at least a 'basic theory' skill-set could be the difference between 'smoke-in' or 'smoke-out'.
Anyway...here's to learning!!
 
ok ya want a shot at me ya got it ass... where's your original post... we were talking about more current than necessary to run the unit... and only a twit would try to hook a 9V device to 14V so where's that leave your argument... and how many times did you do the experiment before you decided it wasn't a good idea... look asshole i'll put my electronics credentials up against anyone here... and not just theorehtical (sp?).... i have done factory authorized service for crown qsc yamaha korg roland marshall fender boogie soundcraft allen and heath and many others... so i have some idea what i'm talking about... as to your neg rep... unlike others around here that use the rep system to tag their friends i try to use it to award good answers and hopefully end misinformation which i beleive in this case you were spewing.... grow the fuk up....

I could care less who you work for but in all reality you are the one who is wrong fool.
 
Would someone please explain to Rogetitan the difference between Voltage and Current.
 
The OP was about using a 9V 280mA adaptor to power a 9V 20mA pedal. Your rant at Dementedchord implies that powering a 9V pedal with a 14V adaptor, and the resulting fried pedal, proves your point. It does not. The first you can do. The second you can't (if you value your equipment).
 
Voltage refers to the difference in electrical potential between two points. Picture two lakes connected by a stream. If you fill one up to ten feet and the other to five feet, the voltage potential is ten feet of water. If you close the gate in the middle of the stream, no water will flow, but if the higher water level exceeds the top of the gate, it will flow over the top. This is like a circuit having a maximum voltage at which it will operate without damage.

Voltage is measured in volts. Electronic circuits generally operate within a narrow voltage range. Exceed that voltage and they go up in smoke. If the voltage is too low, they will generally fail to function. If the circuit stores data, this can even be catastrophic as it corrupts memory. For the most part, though, giving a device too little voltage will just result in a failure.

Current refers to the maximum flow allowed through a circuit. So if the river is five feet wide, the amount of water that will flow through it is less than will flow through a river fifty feet wide. No matter how high the water gets on one lake, though, the water flow will never exceed the width of the river. Okay, maybe I should have used a pipe or something since a river's banks are sloped, but you get the idea. Okay, here's a better way to word it. Since the gate is always as wide as the river, no matter how wide you make the river, water will never suddenly start flowing over the top of the gate. :)

Current and voltage are related. If the device draws too much current through a pipe that is insufficient to handle it (or from a power source that can't provide it), the voltage sags. This can best be visualized by looking at the lake with the lower water level. If the river is wide enough (as wide as the lake), the water level at the low end of the river will be at approximately the same level as the level at the high end of the river and things will equalize as soon as that flow reaches the other side of the lake. If the river is narrower, the level at the low end of the river will be only slightly higher than the water level in the lower lake.

And then, there's power, measured in Watts. This is equivalent to a measure that incorporates both the water level difference and the width of the river in the same unit. Basically, it's like the number of square feet of water pressing against the upper side of the center gate. :)

How's that?
 
Actually some Pedals will work just fine with 14v as opposed to 9v but not all...it all depends on the curcuit, If the curcuit is an all Opamp curcuit with no transistors or logic chips then many can even handle 30v or more depending on the opamp used, but with pedlas that have transistors in them the Increased Voltage will throw the Bias out and some logic chip will just fry with higher Voltages...I actually run my Opamp based pedals at higher Voltages as it increases the headroom but I wouldn"t suggest it to anyone unless they know what is actually going on inside the pedal....


Cheers
 
Actually some Pedals will work just fine with 14v as opposed to 9v but not all...it all depends on the curcuit, If the curcuit is an all Opamp curcuit with no transistors or logic chips then many can even handle 30v or more depending on the opamp used, but with pedlas that have transistors in them the Increased Voltage will throw the Bias out and some logic chip will just fry with higher Voltages...I actually run my Opamp based pedals at higher Voltages as it increases the headroom but I wouldn"t suggest it to anyone unless they know what is actually going on inside the pedal....

True. Some devices have wide tolerances. Microprocessors, for example, have a maximum voltage, but can run at lower voltages if you also reduce the clock speed (or automatically reduce the clock speed when the voltage is lower, not sure whether the clock on modern CPUs is on-die these days).

LEDs require voltage limiting (well, technically it's really current limiting, but we talk about the devices as having a specific operating voltage usually in the 1-3V range and the current limiting effectively causes a voltage drop, so ...whatever...). Run them at a higher voltage/current and they can get too hot and the device eats itself or even explodes. Of course, this means you can run them at a higher voltage as long as you use a shorter duty cycle (a blinking bulb can run at a higher voltage if it is only on half the time than it could safely run if it were on all the time).

Transistors and other logic parts have a maximum voltage, but it is usually way above the circuit voltage. As you noted, though, it can change the sound.

AFAIK, resistors care only about the power drain across them, not the voltage, though I'd imagine there's a voltage at which the plastic becomes conductive, at which point you'd have a problem. :) That said, there's a giant "but" there. Power is, in turn, dependent upon voltage. If the device on the other side of that resistor drains a constant amount of power (e.g. a resistor that provides power to a switching voltage regulator), you're fine. If the devices on the other side of that resistor drains a constant amount of current, then as you increase the voltage, the power across the resistor goes up and you could exceed the wattage of the resistor. This, of course, only applies to resistors in the power supply circuit, which are, quite frankly, fairly rare in modern power supply circuits except in high voltage electronics; for low-voltage applications, it is usually cheaper and easier to just use a voltage regulator.

Voltage regulators have a maximum voltage, but it is usually high enough (maybe 30V higher than the output voltage) that you won't run into it unless you do something really, really dumb (like hooking the 120VAC mains to a full wave bridge without a transformer and feeding 148VDC into it). :D

Diodes have a breakdown voltage above which they behave very differently when reverse biased. :) If you raise the voltage high enough, you might encounter this, though with the exception of zener diodes, I doubt you'll reach it in most circuits. Most of the diodes I've seen lately have breakdown voltages of 35V or more.

Capacitors have a voltage limit. Worse, electrolytic capacitors lose their voltage tolerance over time. Thus, if you take a capacitor rated at 35V and run it at 12V long enough, its tolerance will degrade to 12V. If you then introduce 35V, the capacitor will explode and spit electrolyte out everywhere. This makes a horrible mess.

Worse still, electrolytic capacitors' voltage specification is based on a narrow operating temperature range. Exceed that temperature and the lifespan at or near the rated voltage is dramatically shortened. Since running a device at a higher operating temperature usually means that other components will dissipate more power as heat, this means you're doubly screwed. :D

It's not enough to look at a couple of components. You really have to look at the whole circuit and make sure that nothing is going to fry. Either that or talk to somebody who has done it before and find out how many years the device lasted before the caps leaked electrolyte. :D
 
Would someone please explain to Rogetitan the difference between Voltage and Current.


dgatwood's explaination isn't bad but i prefer it this way...

consider a water pipe... the size determines the flow rate to a large degree.... this is resistance... the more resistance the smaller the pipe... the pressure behind the water is voltage.... given enough pressure we can push large amounts of water through a straw if the straw can withstand it... that would be indicative of a "higher wattage"straw... the shear volume of water is current... we could actually count the "electrons" as they pass a point in the pipe... the thing to keep in mind for our pedal is that voltage is a potential (let that sink in)... in other words it doesnt use the voltage... what does the work is the current (given off as heat hence wattage)...and as long as the potential current is greater than the need of the device we have no problem... if it's less than needed then the voltage sags and it either self destructs or simply wont work... if it's more than required then everything is copaecetic... nothing has to happen to the "unused"current it doesn't need to be disapated somehow... because it again goes back to the idea of a potential... makes sense???


rogue... my reason for listing some of the brands that i have done work for is i assumed you would realize that they have standards which need to be satisfied Befor they let you do work for them... roland for instance had a testing schedule to insure that you kept up with the changes .... crown (one of the hardest amps to troubleshoot) i sat through a 2 day seminar and tested... and that doesn't speak to formal schooling...
 
Without knowing the voltage regulator's design, it's hard to say, it's possible that everything will be just fine. On the other hand, if the regulator is working over time to bring the 14 volts down to 9, there could be little zener diode or a regulator chip in there stressing out and over time could over-heat and give up the ghost. In which case, there would be a whole lot of "I told ya so" going on in here. The thing calls for 9 Volts...they must have put that on the pedal just to scare people or maybe, they're idiots and have no idea what they're doing. Nah,...that can't be it.

Tech here too. It's what I do for a living, it's how I clothe and feed the family and have done so for 25 years. If I was full of shit, I'd be living in the streets with hungry kids. IMHO, not a wise experiment unless you're ok with fixing these things but I'm guessing that's not the case.

Rep me...I don't give a rats ass.
 
Rep me...I don't give a rats ass.

LMAO:D

What you said in your post is exactly the point I was trying to make

people who do not know any better would have read into the thread that using any transformer would have been safe then much to their dismay they find out differently the hard way.

I was just trying to prevent that from happening:)
 
Without knowing the voltage regulator's design, it's hard to say, it's possible that everything will be just fine. On the other hand, if the regulator is working over time to bring the 14 volts down to 9, there could be little zener diode or a regulator chip in there stressing out and over time could over-heat and give up the ghost. In which case, there would be a whole lot of "I told ya so" going on in here. The thing calls for 9 Volts...they must have put that on the pedal just to scare people or maybe, they're idiots and have no idea what they're doing. Nah,...that can't be it.

Tech here too. It's what I do for a living, it's how I clothe and feed the family and have done so for 25 years. If I was full of shit, I'd be living in the streets with hungry kids. IMHO, not a wise experiment unless you're ok with fixing these things but I'm guessing that's not the case.

Rep me...I don't give a rats ass.


you got to the dance alittle late... and as such can be excused for taking some out of context.... did you read the whole thread???? without it would be hard pressed to understand the root of the problem.... the original querstion is concerning the use of a tranny that is rated above the draw of the unit... the voltage was not in question at all.... as to regulation inside of pedals.... the only thing i've ever seen is "possibly" a zener and most dont have that... and that would only help your 14V circumstance IF there were a dropping resistor in front of it... dont know why you think i'm trying to pick a fight with you with the rep comment... but i've spent all the time on this i intend to... you can"t save someone from themselves.... so have at...
 
To the point of pissing people off...nope, not my intent either.

I did read the whole thread, and frankly got a little lost in it all and in the end, I see two issues (technical issues) which seem to be part of the discussion...current (supply vs. demand) and voltage (supply vs regulation).

The current concept, generally speaking and assuming that the equipment is in good working order, a supply with higher capacity than the device demand should be just fine except under some circumstances where if the design of the demand device isn't well protected, could lead to greater damange if/when a short circuit might take place due to the additional "oomph" that the bigger supply can deliver.

As for voltage aka emf, regualtion is a nother matter. I think I mentioned (zenor and/or regulation chip) but either way, the difference in potential needs to be matched with the load device in mind. If we over supply the voltage, eventually, something must give.

That's all...no Ill will or intent and my appologies for getting lost in the thick of it all but I thought to throw out my 2 cents worth just in case it wasn't clear to some of the other followers.

Peace, love and all that happiness junk. As for the rep thing...yeah, I still don't care :D
 
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