Question about Modes

[guitaristic]

So my friends and I were jamming last night, and were playing a song that has D-Am-C-G as the verse chords. Now, if you asked me what key that song was in, I'd probably say G. One of my friends mentioned something about the mixolydian scale in D though, so that would probably be correct, right?

So this got me thinking--all of those songs like "Creep" by Radiohead (G-B-C-Cm) that have strange chord progressions, are they all just different modes? I used to think they were just random chords that sounded good (maybe some of the songs still are), but the different modes whole pattern-in-the-madness thing is starting to make sense.

So I found a song the other day that goes B-G-A-E. (YouTube - Civil Twilight - Letters From The Sky (Lyrics))

What mode would that be? I want to say B mixolydian, but the G would throw that off, correct?


Thanks!

 

[fat_fleet]

first off, you know what a "mode" is right? a mode is just a different way of playing that boring old eight tone major scale. the mixolydian mode starts on the fifth note of a given major scale and follows the notes of THAT SCALE to an octave up. so rather than saying "this song is in B mixolydian" and have everyone rushing for their dictionaries, you could just say "this song is in E". its the same thing. modes are good to know to figure out different positions on the fretboard, but after awhile you'll forget em and just play what sounds good.

does not knowing what key the song is in really get in the way of you enjoying it? i would be suprised if it did. its good to know the rules but they're made to be broken. anyways looks like your YouTube song is in D.

 

[guitaristic]

first off, you know what a "mode" is right? a mode is just a different way of playing that boring old eight tone major scale. the mixolydian mode starts on the fifth note of a given major scale and follows the notes of THAT SCALE to an octave up. so rather than saying "this song is in B mixolydian" and have everyone rushing for their dictionaries, you could just say "this song is in E". its the same thing. modes are good to know to figure out different positions on the fretboard, but after awhile you'll forget em and just play what sounds good.

Yeah, I know that modes are just different ways of playing scales. My friend is a music major, so I just wanted to make sure he hadn't attained some higher level of musical knowledge lol.

does not knowing what key the song is in really get in the way of you enjoying it? i would be suprised if it did. its good to know the rules but they're made to be broken. anyways looks like your YouTube song is in D.

It doesn't keep me from enjoying the songs...rather, I enjoy the songs so much that I want to know as much as possible about them.

And yeah, I think that song really was in D or D# (the chords I put were capo 3 or 4...forgot to mention that.)

So even though that song goes D-A#-C-F# (all major), it would still be in the key of D? That's what I have a hard time wrapping my brain around

 

[nolimore]

Some modes I use for playing around chords. The root note, is the root note for the scale too.

Major - Ionian
Minor - Aeolian (natural minor)
Dominant 7th chord - Mixolydian
Minor 7th chord - Dorian, Aeolian (natural minor)
Major 7th chord - Ionian
Diminished 7th - Locrian
Sus4b9 - Phrygian
Major 7th #11 - Lydian
Minor Major - Minor Major (#1 mode of melodic minor) - minor triad + major 7th.

The above examples are based on the Major Scale and its modes, what modes I tend to use. The Melodic Minor Scale also has its own modes.

Tip: The dominant 7th chord makes more extended chords - 9ths, 11ths, 13ths (a octave higher, but still the same interval functions: 9=2 (minor/major 2nd), 11=4 (perfect 4th, augmented 4th), 13=6 (major/minor 6th) So the modes associated with dominant 7 should work well with those extended chords. Maybe why mixolydian is such a popularly used mode.

The way I learn't fingerings for modes and scales too, is to work on the bottom E and A. These two strings will create 2 octave 'boxes' (vertical). The same goes for arpeggios same principle (playing chord tones in a scale fashion). Mix the modes with arpeggios and you should have a good voice for expression.

 

[guitaristic]

Some modes I use for playing around chords. The root note, is the root note for the scale too.

Major - Ionian
Minor - Aeolian (natural minor)
Dominant 7th chord - Mixolydian
Minor 7th chord - Dorian, Aeolian (natural minor)
Major 7th chord - Ionian
Diminished 7th - Locrian
Sus4b9 - Phrygian
Major 7th #11 - Lydian
Minor Major - Minor Major (#1 mode of melodic minor) - minor triad + major 7th.

The above examples are based on the Major Scale and its modes, what modes I tend to use. The Melodic Minor Scale also has its own modes.

Tip: The dominant 7th chord makes more extended chords - 9ths, 11ths, 13ths (a octave higher, but still the same interval functions: 9=2 (minor/major 2nd), 11=4 (perfect 4th, augmented 4th), 13=6 (major/minor 6th) So the modes associated with dominant 7 should work well with those extended chords. Maybe why mixolydian is such a popularly used mode.

The way I learn't fingerings for modes and scales too, is to work on the bottom E and A. These two strings will create 2 octave 'boxes' (vertical). The same goes for arpeggios same principle (playing chord tones in a scale fashion). Mix the modes with arpeggios and you should have a good voice for expression.

Sweet! Good stuff...thank you!

 

[arcadeko]

I tried memorizing all the mode patterns but I keep forgetting them.

I was learning a bunch of theory and I enjoy it - but when I am working out a song it all goes out the door - I just look for the next chord or note that sounds right

But I would imagine that having all that stuff in the back of my mind helps me find the right next note. I mostly use theory for harmonies.

 

[Armistice]

G-man/drumtastic (your new name...).

Songs have keys, scales of individual notes can have a mode.

Don't sweat it too much... your ability to work out good melody doesn't revolve around the ability to know what mode you're working in. Useful info if you have a mind to pursue it of course, as it gives you some places to look, but don't, for god sake, get obsessed by it.

And Creep isn't a weird chord change. I'll have a listen again, but my suspicion is that the G to B thing is a "power" chord in both instances, and so not really a major. Could be wrong however. Even then, it's still not weird...

 

[guitaristic]

G-man/drumtastic (your new name...).

Songs have keys, scales of individual notes can have a mode.

Don't sweat it too much... your ability to work out good melody doesn't revolve around the ability to know what mode you're working in. Useful info if you have a mind to pursue it of course, as it gives you some places to look, but don't, for god sake, get obsessed by it.

And Creep isn't a weird chord change. I'll have a listen again, but my suspicion is that the G to B thing is a "power" chord in both instances, and so not really a major. Could be wrong however. Even then, it's still not weird...

Thanks Armistice! Yeah, I just threw that song out there as an example. I find the Cmaj. to Cmin part the strangest though, although Gmaj to Bmaj seems pretty strange to me as well!

And don't worry, I don't let it get in the way of my songwriting
And I'm cool with drumtastic

 

[Armistice]

Thanks Armistice! Yeah, I just threw that song out there as an example. I find the Cmaj. to Cmin part the strangest though, although Gmaj to Bmaj seems pretty strange to me as well!

And don't worry, I don't let it get in the way of my songwriting
And I'm cool with drumtastic

I use maj to minor changes a lot... it's not uncommon I think you'll find. When do we hear some of your efforts in a song comp?

 

[guitaristic]

I use maj to minor changes a lot... it's not uncommon I think you'll find. When do we hear some of your efforts in a song comp?

Should be in the next month or two I'm stockpiling up for an album, but it's been a rough situation with the end of the school semester and all!