Question about adjusting gain on my mixer

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Mr songwriter

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OK, I've got a cheapo Behringer mixer, which I use for recording guitar, bass and the occasional miked guitar amp, I'm getting reasonable quality recordings but the quality seems to vary quite a bit. Sometimes it seems like the guitar signal is too quiet, but I'm never exactly sure which gain control I should I should be adjusting to get the best quality (and loudest?) recording, given that there are three to choose from (input 'trim' gain control, the individual channel gain control and the 'main mix' gain control) and given that I am only ever recording one thing at a time through this mixer (which I am really only using as a preamp for my soundcard) although I switch between different effects pedals and obviously bass and guitar which will affect the levels, could someone also please give me a clear explanation of the function of the trim control and how it interacts with the other gain controls. Ta.
 
Trim is the input gain of the signal patched into that channel. There should be a light to moniter the signal peak of the gain, when it flashes you should have a strong gain signal. The channel volume controls the volume the signal post gain, eq, pan etc. The master volume controls the master output volume of all the channels as a mix.

Hope this helps.

Peace
 
The easy answer -

Keep everything you can at unity gain and adjust the input trim to get a decent level (peaking at maybe -6dBfs or so) on your digital interface.

If the level gets very hot easily, roll the channel volume and main volume outputs down a little. That'll save you a little noise also.
 
Cheers for the replies. By unity gain, I take it you mean 0 db? (the central notched position)

Here is a (large) picture of my mixer:

http://hdsound.co.kr/prod/image/261.GIF

As you can see, the only readout on the mixer is the set of LED's at bottom right, which read ((+) top to (-) bottom) 'clip' '6' '0' '20' I can run my guitar through my compressor pedal, turn the volume right up and hit it as hard as you like, and the only thing that lights up on the mixer is the -20 led, even though there is very audible and nasty clipping going on.

Also, when you say digital interface do you mean the control panel on my soundcard?

http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/m-audio-audiophile/cp1.png

...I don't really make any adjustments on this, I just leave the slider (H/W in 1/2) at the default setting (???) of '0', could this be where I'm going wrong? should I be making adjustments on there instead of on my mixer? The other possibility is that the mixer itself is just crap, but the only upgrade (?) I could afford would be this:

http://dawsonsonline.com/live/rhtProd.php5?prodId=00053560

Would the preamps be any better than those in the Behringer? would I notice any difference in the sound? are the FX any good? (I Googled, but I couldn't find any reviews of this product)
 
Mr songwriter said:
Cheers for the replies. By unity gain, I take it you mean 0 db? (the central notched position)

Here is a (large) picture of my mixer:

http://hdsound.co.kr/prod/image/261.GIF

As you can see, the only readout on the mixer is the set of LED's at bottom right, which read ((+) top to (-) bottom) 'clip' '6' '0' '20' I can run my guitar through my compressor pedal, turn the volume right up and hit it as hard as you like, and the only thing that lights up on the mixer is the -20 led, even though there is very audible and nasty clipping going on.

Also, when you say digital interface do you mean the control panel on my soundcard?

http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/m-audio-audiophile/cp1.png

...I don't really make any adjustments on this, I just leave the slider (H/W in 1/2) at the default setting (???) of '0', could this be where I'm going wrong? should I be making adjustments on there instead of on my mixer? The other possibility is that the mixer itself is just crap, but the only upgrade (?) I could afford would be this:

http://dawsonsonline.com/live/rhtProd.php5?prodId=00053560

Would the preamps be any better than those in the Behringer? would I notice any difference in the sound? are the FX any good? (I Googled, but I couldn't find any reviews of this product)
Click to expand...
As far as the Yamaha mixer goes, I have the MG 10/2... It is considered to be a much better mixer than the Behringer by lots of folks.

And yes, UNITY is usually where the tick marks on your sliders are a group of them that are close together. On the Yamaha MG series, they are a thicker tick mark. I am not too familiar with the marks on the Behringer, but I will assume they would be something similar.

Once you get the master volumes set at unity, then you adjust the knob or slider on the track input to bring it up just below clipping and you should have a fairly decent signal to work with.

Another thing that you may want to look at is making sure that you have your amp volumes and mic placement as close to the same each time, and you will notice that your tracking things at the same levels each time. A good way to do this is to use a tracking chart, where you mark the levels you used for each instrument and amp (or pre amp) for a particular song. That way if you have to retrack something, setting things up the same will be easier.

I hope I helped...
 
Yes, that makes sense, making notes about the settings I use when I get a good recording, I think I'll start doing that. As far as the Yamaha mixer goes, the main thing I want to know is specifically if the preamps and the EQ will be better than those on the Behringer as those are the main things I would be buying it for; I do sometimes mike up an amp to record guitar, but I usually record it direct through the mixer resulting in that weird twangy digital sound (sounds a bit like a nylon stringed guitar) would the Yamaha sound any less like that?
 
Read the part under "The Microphone Preamp" about Unity Gain .

Hope it helps.

Also search the topic here or on Google:

Proper Gain Structure
or
Gain Staging
 
Cheers, Maestro, useful links. I also had a look at the manual for that Yamaha mixer, which gave some pretty good explanations too. It also said that to 'achieve the best overall system S/N ratio, amplify the input to the desired average level as early as possible in the signal path' otherwise: "If you don’t get the signal up to the desired level at the head amplifier stage, you will need to apply more gain at later stages, which will only amplify the noise contributed by the preceding stages. Just remember that too much initial gain is bad too, because it will overload our channel circuitry and cause clipping" Makes sense.
 
Mr songwriter said:
Yes, that makes sense, making notes about the settings I use when I get a good recording, I think I'll start doing that. As far as the Yamaha mixer goes, the main thing I want to know is specifically if the preamps and the EQ will be better than those on the Behringer as those are the main things I would be buying it for; I do sometimes mike up an amp to record guitar, but I usually record it direct through the mixer resulting in that weird twangy digital sound (sounds a bit like a nylon stringed guitar) would the Yamaha sound any less like that?
Click to expand...
I've found that the Yamaha has a pretty good onboard eq, so I've never had the guitar sound twangy; but then I don't DI my guitars anymore. The pre's on the Yamaha are really quiet (S/N ratio) for the low price that you pay for it, and they are really good with condensor mics (you can hear yourself scratching your head in the mic). I have never owned Behringer stuff, but when I bought the Yamaha, I did do a side by side comparison. The Yamaha won out for me, and I was willing to pay the extra $ for it.
 
Mr songwriter said:
Cheers, Maestro, useful links. I also had a look at the manual for that Yamaha mixer, which gave some pretty good explanations too. It also said that to 'achieve the best overall system S/N ratio, amplify the input to the desired average level as early as possible in the signal path' otherwise: "If you don’t get the signal up to the desired level at the head amplifier stage, you will need to apply more gain at later stages, which will only amplify the noise contributed by the preceding stages. Just remember that too much initial gain is bad too, because it will overload our channel circuitry and cause clipping" Makes sense.
Click to expand...
Yep, that's why I always crank the gain until I get clipping and then back it off to where I fill all the green LCD's. It works pretty good that way. I hope you do get the Yamaha MG, you won't be disappointed, I'm sure.
 
Cheers, Rokket, I'll try and have a look at one sometime this week, assuming they'll let me try it out in the shop (that kind of thing takes a bit of setting up)
 
Mr songwriter said:
Cheers, Rokket, I'll try and have a look at one sometime this week, assuming they'll let me try it out in the shop (that kind of thing takes a bit of setting up)
Click to expand...
I got lucky that they had them set up in the store... :cool:
 
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