Quesiton on Stereo Reverb

  • Thread starter Thread starter AllenM
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AllenM

AllenM

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Heres what I have so far:

track 1: Music
track 2: Bass
Track 3: Vocals
Track 4: Back up vocals

I need to bounce these 4 tracks to track 1 on my other 3340 in order to add more back up vocals. I like the way the stereo reverb sounds on the lead vocals. Is there any way I can keep it? I understand when I bounce I need to have the reverb output going into one channel on my mixing board. Can someone please help me out im stuck! :confused:
 
When you do the bounce over to the other machine, don't just record it to one track. Record it as a stereo track to two channels on the receiving machine. That way you can preserve whatever panning and stereo reverb effects you like and then still have two tracks left over to add the extra backing vocals.

I used to bounce between two 4 track reel to reel decks and that's how I always worked; in stereo.

When you're doing a project, you really need to sit down and think it trough, production-wise.

So if you want your song to have drums, bass, 2 guitar parts, some keys, main vocals and backing vocals, here's a brief plan of how to track that.

- On the first 4 tracks, record stereo drums, the bass and the rhythm guitar. Bounce that in stereo to two tracks on the second machine. While doing that bounce, add in your stereo reverb into that bounce mix.

- On the second machine add the second guitar and main vocal and play the keyboard part live while bouncing that back to the first machine in stereo. While doing that bounce, mix in the desired stereo reverb effects to the new parts.

- On the two remaining tracks on the first machine, add in your backing vocal parts and then do a final stereo mix to your two track mastering recorder while also adding in any reverb effects you want on those backing vocals.

Working a project in this way will allow you to keep everything in stereo and have different stereo reverb effects applied to the parts you choose and you'll end up with a track that sounds like it was recorded on an 8 track deck, in stereo and with with stereo reverb on all the tracks.

Cheers! :)
 
I see. So right now I would send the outputs on my reverb to two channels on my mixer and assign one channel L and the other R. Also, when I master the song do I take the outputs of my mixer and plug em into the mic inserts on my 3340?
 
I see. So right now I would send the outputs on my reverb to two channels on my mixer and assign one channel L and the other R. ?

The outputs of your reverb should be plugged into two of your mixer's main mixing channel strips and assigned to PGM/buss 1 & 2, just like your existing tape tracks are when you bounce tracks from one machine over to another. This way, you can use and record the reverb effect when you do your machine to machine bounce stage.

I believe we went over this in a previous thread some months ago when both sweatbeats and myself typed out at fairly great length the steps involved doing that. Did you absorb any of that? I ask because the questions you're asking right now indicate that you didn't. :o

Also, when I master the song do I take the outputs of my mixer and plug em into the mic inserts on my 3340?
No. You only use the microphone inputs of your recorder when you are using actual microphones in the absence of having a mixer. And you do have a mixer so in essence, there is no need to ever use the recorder's microphone inputs.

When you do your final stereo master recording, you are not going to be using either of your 4 track reel to reel decks. Instead, you should be using a dedicated mastering deck such as a CD recorder deck or even your computer so that you can end up with a stereo recording that you can play on a CD player in your home or your car or as an MP3 that you can play on your computer or ipod or share with others on-line.

Cheers! :)
 
Haha alright, I get it! :)
THANKS!

OK, if you've got a grip on that now, that's cool! :)

But, if you're still having problems wrapping your head around the hook ups and how to route it all, please don't be embarrassed to ask!

I know it can be confusing, trying to deal with two 4 track decks and a smaller mixer that wasn't really designed to have all of that gear hooked up to it.

I remember when I had mine set up, it involved a lot of re-patching machines as I only had a 6 channel mixer, a TASCAM M106, which had enough output jacks to feed to the two decks but not enough line inputs to have them both connected for playback. So each time I wanted to transfer stuff between machine A and B, I had to re-patch the decks outputs. So it really helped at the time, having a really good mental picture in my mind of where everything was going...sort of a mental flow chart. Once you have that same clear picture in your mind, it will be easier to know where your signals are going...sort of like driving a new route in your car and not knowing all the roadways you could use to get from point A to B and getting lost or wasting time and gas taking a poorer route. But, once you're really familiar with the roadways, it becomes much easier to plan out smarter routes or make detours when necessary. Learning your way around the highway of paths in your mixer and recorders, it will also become more second nature to figure out a way to route your signals to go where they need to flow.

The stereo reverb can also be confusing because most mixers only have effect returns that feed the stereo buss and when you're bouncing from machine to machine, you need to not use those returns and instead plug them into a main mixing channel where they can be assigned to the 1-2-3-4 busses to get their signal into the recording path.

Cheers! :)
 
Yeah, It really is confusing.. but not impossible! I dont give up too easy but I do take alot of brakes. And since I started recording with reel 2 reel I've learned a whole lot, not everything, but more than Ive ever know. What really throws me off is stereo. I still dont quite understand it. You see I have my 4 busses panned at 12:00 (which the sound is equal on both sides). What I dont get is... If I do a stereo bounce, all the information gets put on 2 tracks, lets say Buss 1, and 2. Now if I leave the pan settings at 12:00 will it still be stereo?
....I dont really know how to explain myself well with this kinda stuff.
 
Yeah, It really is confusing.. but not impossible! I dont give up too easy but I do take alot of brakes. And since I started recording with reel 2 reel I've learned a whole lot, not everything, but more than Ive ever know. What really throws me off is stereo. I still dont quite understand it. You see I have my 4 busses panned at 12:00 (which the sound is equal on both sides). What I dont get is... If I do a stereo bounce, all the information gets put on 2 tracks, lets say Buss 1, and 2. Now if I leave the pan settings at 12:00 will it still be stereo?
....I dont really know how to explain myself well with this kinda stuff.

Not sure exactly the set up, but whatever is going out L & R is panned to one side or the other or in the middle for a stereo image. Now on the tape you mixed to, track 1=L and 2=R will have that amount of pan recorded on their respective channels. So when you play that back, whatever channels those come back into should be hard panned, all the way L & R. L =1 hard panned and R=2 hard panned. On a playback deck the channels are hard panned L and R.
 
Yeah, It really is confusing.. but not impossible! I dont give up too easy but I do take alot of brakes. And since I started recording with reel 2 reel I've learned a whole lot, not everything, but more than Ive ever know. What really throws me off is stereo. I still dont quite understand it. You see I have my 4 busses panned at 12:00 (which the sound is equal on both sides). What I dont get is... If I do a stereo bounce, all the information gets put on 2 tracks, lets say Buss 1, and 2. Now if I leave the pan settings at 12:00 will it still be stereo?
....I dont really know how to explain myself well with this kinda stuff.

If you leave your pan controls at the 12:00 position, you're effectively just making a mono presentation of the sound. So, making a bounce of that mono sound is a waste of track space to copy that over to 2 tracks on the next machine. Therefore, don't do that!!! :eek:

Your pan controls are there for a reason, so let's get a handle on what that reason is and learn how to use the function to its full advantage. The reason they're there is to allow you to create and overall stereo soundfeild presentation of the sound. If you think back to some of the early recordings from the early 1960's, (The Beatles in particular), you can find recordings where the drums are only in the left or only in the right channel and the vocal might only be on the right channel and other instruments were placed in both speakers. This is a classic example of a new toy being in the hands of engineers who didn't know what to do with this new-found power and used the panning feature stupidly.

The whole idea of panning instruments left to right or anywhere in-between, is to try to create a realistic presentation of how a live band or orchestra might sound if you went to see them live on stage. And to date, trying to pan instruments in a way that mimics that live presentation is mankind's best idea so far when it comes to panning an instrument. So think about how a live band might sound and use that as your working guide for how you might pan various instruments left to right and how the reverb effect of that sound bouncing off the walls and ceiling of the hall they're playing in would factor into that when you apply a reverb effect to that part.

If you keep on your current path of putting all the pan controls at 12:00, you're in essence just making a mono, (center stage) presentation of the sound and you're effectively not making much or any of a stereo presentation by doing this.

So, if we go back to your specific recording project, If you have a stereo drum machine, you should record it with the pan controls hard left and hard right to fully preserve what ever panning information was there originally. The bass guitar panned to center and the rhythm guitar panned just left or just right of center and then transfer that stereo presentation to the next machine on two tracks to preserve that panning information. Then, once the that transfer is complete, you then leave those two tracks panned hard left and hard right to preserve that stereo mix. Then the next added parts, say the lead guitar and main vocal, you then pan according to the stereo presentation you want to build on. So that means panning the lead guitar in the opposite channel to where the rhythm guitar is sitting and the main vocal where that needs to be in relation to the backing vocals that will be added after the next bounce.

The idea of all this panning is so that you end up roughly simulating the "live on stage" music sound, where the players and their parts are spread out across the stage.

Hopefully, after you've absorbed what I wrote, you'll get a better idea of how to use the panning more effectively.

Cheers! :)
 
Ok I figured out what to do. Since Im doing a stereo bounce I would...
Assign all 6 channels to busses 1, and 2. Pan each channel strip the way I would like it to be. And when I bounce I would have... 2 busses with all the info, buss number 1 panned a hard left and buss number 2 panned a hard right. You see, I wasnt even using the channels PAN knob correctly.... For some reason I thought its function was exactly the same as the assigning switches (1,2,3,4) How could i be so stupid.... haha.
 
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