Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
Well, I keep checking the site, out of curiosity. The Tweeter page says Gp9 coming "in a few weeks." 1/2" and 2" doesn't say if this is NOS or New production.
FALKEN
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thank god. link?
Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
Here's the link: Peter Hutt's twitter account
briank
analog for the people!
Must have bought up a lot of NOS or something. Too bad there's no 1"!
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dodgeaspen
New member
That's cool.
Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
Of course in June there was supposed to be a bunch of 632 coming but don't see it listed yet.
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Dan Ö
New member
It would be nice with new quantegy stuff but i think that analog tape users should support RMGI/Pyral and ATR instead of using old stock or used tape. They are taking risks and should be supported for still manufacturing new tape and they need us to stay alive. I'm about to align 2 machines, ( one with two different formulas ) and I've decided to focus only on new produced tape.
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briank
analog for the people!
I think people will be less nutty about NOS when current manufacturers can instill confidence in the consumer (and especially industry professionals) that the tape will be reasonably reliable from one reel to the next.
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Dan Ö
New member
True, I got the impression though that most problems in the beginning are solved and in those cases when there's been a problem, the warranty has been reliable.
But It's true what you're saying, the professionals have to pleased. ( I'm not sure about which tapes that are the most common today in professional studios. )
On the other hand, in order for the manufactures to improve and develop their products they need to see that there's a market willing to buy their products. I'm just afraid that they'll close down if the turnover is to small.
Anyway, I'm soon about to order a box of 1inch and two different of 1/4" tapes. It will probably be RMGI since ATR is more expensive and a little harder to come by here in Sweden.
briank
analog for the people!
The problems aren't solved as such, RMGI's teething problems were well publicized; less publicized was a bad batch of ATR got out this year. Sure they'll honor the warranty but that doesn't help the band in the studio that has used their week's vacation from the dayjob for the year to make their record, booked out the studio, turn up to first day of recording with 2 brand new reels of ATR, start rolling and both tapes turn out to be bunk. No time to send a reel out and get an exchange there, the damage and stress have already done their ugly duty in screwing up the session. Put yourself in that scenario, tough through the week of hell and see if you're still keen to support the new production stuff just because we're lucky to have them! (and don't misunderstand, we certainly are!) But if was given the choice between a case of ATR with an unknown mfr date or a case of NOS Quantegy branded 499/GP9, even though still a bit of a gamble either way, based on my experience thus far I'd personally be more inclined to snap up the Quantegy. I can't speak for how other professionals do their analog business, but I'd prefer to stick with what I trust more, if I can get my hands on it. Otherwise it's going to have to prove itself to me.
I'm not aware of ATR or RMGI having recalled any bad batches, meaning there are still bad reels of both on the market waiting to be bought and spooled up with unpleasant results. At least we know that, for example, a box of NOS pre-1995 Ampex 456 is almost certainly going to be bad and to avoid it in the first place!
There are people here who have used a much broader variety of tapes for a much longer time that might disagree with me, and that's certainly fine, but I have reason to be gunshy on the new stuff.
I use a couple reels of early/mid 2000's era 499 as reliable studio recyclers, but the next client that wants their own reels, if they don't know their way around the NOS tape market I will probably suggest they give RMGI SM900 a try and only if I can order it on their behalf as far ahead of time as possible so I can test it before it can screw up a session bloc. I only wish I'd had the option to be so pragmatic with that ATR snafu, but I digress!
If a decent supply of 1" NOS 499 or GP9 turned up from a reasonably reputable source for a sane price I'd take my chances.
Guess my point really is not to have a false sense of security about new tape. Glad it's available and warrantied but I'm approaching with caution. Basically on the one hand you have commonly available new formulas but you take a chance on the batch, or you scrounge around for NOS that's known to be generally good but who knows who you're buying it from or where the next reels will come from.
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Dan Ö
New member
I totally understand that some warranty never can repair a ruined recording session. We'll see if I change my opinion after buying a stock of new tapes.. As you said, I guess you have to test the tapes directly after delivery to make sure there aren't any problems. If you have the time to do that, I don't see any problem in working with new tapes unless there are other reasons as well.
(To test the tape for shedding, will it show immediately, is there something special you should do when you test them? )
Do you know if there's a record somewhere of suspected bad batches?
(To test the tape for shedding, will it show immediately, is there something special you should do when you test them? )
Do you know if there's a record somewhere of suspected bad batches?
briank
analog for the people!
I don't think there is, the sticky shed list here only covers older tapes far as I know.
The bad ATR we'd gotten showed problems right away. In fact, there was telltale "squeaking" when I first wound out to the tails. I seem to recall the reels were both labeled with a date of October 2010 and were bought in July of this year from Vintage King.
That's pretty much it, yeah.
The only other major caveat with the new tapes is their longevity is a question mark, we don't know how long an otherwise good new tape will store before breaking down, so that's the other reason to keep older, more proven NOS formulas in consideration.
The bad ATR we'd gotten showed problems right away. In fact, there was telltale "squeaking" when I first wound out to the tails. I seem to recall the reels were both labeled with a date of October 2010 and were bought in July of this year from Vintage King.
That's pretty much it, yeah.
The only other major caveat with the new tapes is their longevity is a question mark, we don't know how long an otherwise good new tape will store before breaking down, so that's the other reason to keep older, more proven NOS formulas in consideration.
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Beck
Guest
Though I understand and appreciate what you are saying here I strongly disagree. I know there are many people who feel we should support, wave flags and cheer for only current manufacturers, but IMO this mindset is misguided, though well meaning. Here’s why.
You’re ignoring a significant segment of tape supply, which includes an almost infinite supply of New-Old-Stock tape… and in many cases superior to anything RMGI and ATR are currently producing. Not only better tape in many cases, but simply different tape. RMGI does not make Quantegy 456 or GP9, or Scotch 206/207, or Maxell XLI. Each type of tape has a quality that you can’t get with a different tape. The bottom line should be the same as the reason most of us choose analog in the first place… THE SOUND.
Independent NOS tape suppliers are a legitimate part of the analog tape market, and if ignored you’ll end up losing them because they’re not going to give it away. They will just hoard their supplies until they can get a fair price for it, which is what many are doing right now. Or even worse, people who have only a business interest in tape will cut their losses and throw it in the trash if they see it’s more trouble than it’s worth to list.
There is no shortage of tape from old manufacturers. People aren’t listing it because no one will pay what it’s worth. And many of you are paying twice the price for tape from RMGI and passing on better tape of the same model from BASF and EMTEC.
RMGI is no friend of mine. They totally took advantage of the tape crisis after Quantegy went bust for the second time and are basically demanding what amounts to a ransom like any pirates would… the prices are so ridiculously over the top. They tightly control their distributors street prices in a way we’ve never seen in the history of tape manufacturing.
Many people are naively letting much of the NOS tape supply die off by waving pom-poms for RMGI.
The bottom line is your bottom line and choosing the tape you want to use based on the qualities of a given type of tape. If it’s RMGI that’s fine, but it will remain a mystery to me why anyone would prefer RMGI over AGFA, BASF or EMTEC… unless RMGI is all you can get. RMGI will become more and more all you can get the more you ignore other sources. If you continue to send a message to NOS tape sellers that their product is worthless they may just start seeing it as garbage taking up valuable storage space.
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Dan Ö
New member
Sure, if the sound is better, that's a different argument.
I can't prove anyone of us is right here, but either way, I don't think old stock will be lost or thrown away. As long as its there's an interest for analog recording or/and value in it, it will be used up. Regardless new production or not. And if it, as you say, sounds better it will be worth even more.
Well that's how the market works, especially when there are to few manufacturers. (Maybe if there were more buyers, then we would get more options and lower prices. ;-) ) If there are so much old stock available, no one is forcing you to buy their stuff. RMGI is no extra evil company, they are like any other company working to make profit.
Noone is sending the message that it's worthless, but if you send that message to RMGI or ATR they'll soon be out of business and that's a shame because I'm pretty sure that with time, they can deliver decent products. I appreciate the possibility to buy tape from a local dealer and not being forced to take chances searching ebay or buying tape abroad.
And maybe I'm missing something here in Sweden because I can't find that huge supply of old stock that you're referring to. I do have the option to import directly from the US but that will be an expensive story and if the quality turns out bad, it's not very cheap to return.
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Beck
Guest
As I said, that’s ok if you use something because you prefer it… or it’s all there is. But if your reason for supporting a manufacturer is some feeling that the burden is on you to keep them alive they are just making patsies out of everyone. It’s a great marketing ploy.
But in truth a free market and competition is just as good for analog tape as it is for any other product. And Ironically people are helping to dismantle what analog there is left by allowing the NOS market to crumble. People should look at that as a source in equal standing with the two remaining tape companies.
Many people that have wound up with stocks of tape aren’t tape people. They buy it in lots at auction. They have no love for it. They are business people. I’ve talked to some who have tossed tape in the dumpster already along with other things that cost a business more to keep than it does to throw it away.
The best thing that could happen to analog tape is for another manufacturer like Quantegy to reenter the picture, but until that happens (If it ever happens) the old products from companies like Quantegy, 3M/Scotch and Maxell are just as good as the day they were made. All the information on what to buy and what to avoid is out there… myself and others put it out there.
Again, if RMGI is all you can get then that’s all you’ve got and that’s fine, but here in the US and many other places there is tape of every kind. Unfortunately sellers are already pulling it and either sitting on it or tossing it in the garbage because frankly the clientele isn’t sophisticated enough at this time to know its value.
If RMGI is one day all there is I suppose I will have to use it, but I’m hoping that doesn’t happen. I’m very well set for tape though and even have some to spare, but it’s better for me to have way too much damn tape than it is to give away. However I have enough sense to keep it… not throw it away.
RMGI isn't the worst tape in the world, but I have 468 from RMGI and going all the way back to AGFA and 911 from RMGI and going back to BASF/EMTEC. In my judgment RMGI falls a bit short of the old formulations. Anyone is welcome to disagree with me on what tape they think is better, but if you're just being loyal to a company that doesn't give a rat's ass about you I think it’s a big mistake.
But in truth a free market and competition is just as good for analog tape as it is for any other product. And Ironically people are helping to dismantle what analog there is left by allowing the NOS market to crumble. People should look at that as a source in equal standing with the two remaining tape companies.
Many people that have wound up with stocks of tape aren’t tape people. They buy it in lots at auction. They have no love for it. They are business people. I’ve talked to some who have tossed tape in the dumpster already along with other things that cost a business more to keep than it does to throw it away.
The best thing that could happen to analog tape is for another manufacturer like Quantegy to reenter the picture, but until that happens (If it ever happens) the old products from companies like Quantegy, 3M/Scotch and Maxell are just as good as the day they were made. All the information on what to buy and what to avoid is out there… myself and others put it out there.
Again, if RMGI is all you can get then that’s all you’ve got and that’s fine, but here in the US and many other places there is tape of every kind. Unfortunately sellers are already pulling it and either sitting on it or tossing it in the garbage because frankly the clientele isn’t sophisticated enough at this time to know its value.
If RMGI is one day all there is I suppose I will have to use it, but I’m hoping that doesn’t happen. I’m very well set for tape though and even have some to spare, but it’s better for me to have way too much damn tape than it is to give away. However I have enough sense to keep it… not throw it away.
RMGI isn't the worst tape in the world, but I have 468 from RMGI and going all the way back to AGFA and 911 from RMGI and going back to BASF/EMTEC. In my judgment RMGI falls a bit short of the old formulations. Anyone is welcome to disagree with me on what tape they think is better, but if you're just being loyal to a company that doesn't give a rat's ass about you I think it’s a big mistake.
Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
It's funny, but I always lookout for Quantegy (or OK Ampex, like 642) because, it's pretty much all I've ever used and I like the way it sounds. I tracked to 406 last time I did any recording, and I really really really like 406. It doesn't seem as bright for lack of a better word then 456. I have some 206 also, and can't wait to try it out. I lost out on several reels of 207 (Ebay glitch-- for some reason I could only bid on one of them) for $12.99 a pop a few months ago. Emailed the seller to no avail. Maybe he tossed it b/c it didn't sell...
FALKEN
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I think its important to note two things on pricing. One is that this tape is made from oil. Oil that cost $10/barrel back in the 90s and is now $100/barrel. Secondly, prices are set by the market.....if they can get it so be it. My main concern with RMGI is the rumours that they got the formula wrong, don't care, and are really screwing over everyone. If you are trying to record on the cheap you are not using tape....
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FAST996
New member
GP9 is the best tape i have ever used but Quantegy probably won't mfg again.I use 900 or 911 RMGI with good results.
briank
analog for the people!
That would be great, but honestly...we've heard that before. I'll eat my own hair and provide photographic evidence of such if it happens
Wow, now I'm torn between my desire for new GP9 and my desire to not eat hair
