Q10 and A7m266 conflict!?!?

  • Thread starter Thread starter neirbo
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neirbo

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Hi all,

I'm a long time listener, first time caller. I thought I'd pass on some info about a possible card/MoBo conflict. I recently bought an Aardvark Q10, and put it in my brand new computer with an Asus A7M266 MoBo. I am having all kinds of timing problems, and weird "crackling" once the system has been running an hour or so. Strangely, the timing problems go away once the crackling begins. It really seems like the PCI slot or internal timer on the card need to warm up before the timing is on, but then that damn noise appears....

I've been in contact with tech support guy named Ben at Aardvark who has walked me throught lots of ideas, including shutting off all other devices (I/O ports, second sound card etc.) and all other background programs. I turned off all screen savers and the "power management" in the BIOS. I also tried three different PCI slots, and manually shutting down the on-board audio with the jumper settings, all with no effect. Ben tells me that he only has one other A7M user on file, and he also had problems until he switched MoBo's. There is still the possibility of either a faulty card, or faulty MoBo, but an inherent conflict is seeming more likely.

I got this setup based largely on recommendations from this site that the A7M is solid board, which is why I wanted to post this. Maybe this card is not good for Q10 users, and I don't want anyone else to go through the frutration I have had with this. I'll have more info next week once I do a couple more tests (Aardvark is mailing me a new PCI card, and I will bring my MoBo in for testing). I'll be sure to post a follow up then. Just wanted to give folks a heads up.

Also, any ideas on what may be causing this are welcome. Also, anyone out there have a similar setup that is actually working? Thanks for any help.

Great site by the way! I've learned lots just browsing around.

Dave

Here's some detatils on my setup:
Asus A7M266 MoBo with integrated sound chip
Athlon 1.4 Gighz CPU
256 meg DDRam
Matrox G450 video card
The C: drive is around 700 meg, 5400 RPM Western Digital with nothing but recording software (no games etc.). Running Windows 98 second edition
Separate data drive is 40 Gig, 7200 RPM Quantum Fireball
CD-RW and floppy drives
 
You could try making sure PCI slots are actually clean. It's a long shot but blow on them to give them a bit of a dusting. It could also be

1) bios settings
2) that tiny HD is slightly sus... I would perhaps think about puttng in a bigger, faster one as you really do need a good gig or so of free space for the smoothest operation. The fact that you won't have much free space to use fo swap fils and the fact that your HD sint very fast could be causing a bottleneck in the system bandwidth of what is otherwise a pretty good system.

Just guesses....
 
Thanks for the ideas Alchemist3k, btu I don't think any one of them is the problem.

I've tried everything I could think of in BIOS: turning off all non-essential devices like com ports, manually assigning an IRQ that I knew was completely free, and turning off power management. I have the most recent BIOS, so flashing it shouldn't do anything.

As for the small hard drive, I actually have two bootable drives that I swap out. I use the small one for recording software. The second hard drive is for everything that is not for recording, but I put the Q10 drivers and Cakewalk on there anyway. I get the same problems as I described already using either drive. This second hard drive is a 10 gig, 5400 Maxtor, which should be plenty I think.

I've tried 3 different PCI slots, so I don't think a single dirty or faulty slot is the problem.

Thanks for the idea, please keep them coming. I have a new Q10 PCI card coming today, I really hope this solves the problem.

Dave
 
Here Goes...

O.K. Dave: I had a very similar problem w/a Q-10 and an abit SA6R. Thought I'd wasted a lot of money until one of the tech support guys at Aardvark.

I am using Sonar XL and any time I started recording I got pops and clicks. Tried everything that I and the CakeWalk tech guys could come up with. Then talked to the people at Aardvark. Turns out that there was some sort of operating system drive access problem going on. (Don't know if it was bios related or not).

My setup has raid drives configured as drive E:\ and even though they are UDMA 5 on 133 mhz system bus, I was getting all kinds of popcorn effects. The tech guy at Aardvark suggested that I change my default audio data drive in CakeWalk from E:\ to C:\ at least while I am recording. (THE PROBLEM DISAPPEARED IMMEDIATELY!!!)

I record with my audio data exclusively on the c drive and once I've finished, I write a bun file, change the audio drive back over to the e drive, reopen the bun file and VIOLA!!!

Data seems to play back perfectly off of the raid drives, just doesn't record onto them well; but it is a must that my audio data not reside on the c drive, just in case of a system crash!

Hope that this works for you!!!
 
True Code Blue,

Thanks for the post. I may give that a try if my next steps fail to help. Right now I'm having the computer checked out (my floppy died too, so maybe this is related?), and a new PCI card mailed. Hopefully one of these will solve the problem. Your example seems weird, since many folks here suggested recording to a separated drive specifically to avoid recording problems. Maybe it is just a RAID issue?
 
Here's an update on this bizzare situation.

First, I noticed that once my computer starts crackling and the timing is correct, I can turn off the computer, restart, and everything works perfectly (timing is good, crackling is absent). This only works if I shut down completely - if I just hit restart, the crackling remains. Once I'veshut down and restarted, the timing stays prefect even if I shut down and restart again. If the system is turned off for some unkown amount of time, the timing problems come back.

The timing problem is not restricted to the MIDI metronome. If I record immediately, then play back an hour later, it sounds like the Chipmunks on speed.

It really seems like something needs to "warm up", even though that sounds funny. I don't think it is the card itself, since if I remove the sound card and run the computer an hour or so, then reinstall the card, it works fine.

I also notice that when the card is working ok and I use Cakewalk's wave profiler to get the DMA settings, it generates different settings than when I use the profiler when the computer timing is off. This appears to be a symptom, but not the cause, of the problem since when I turned on the computer this morning it still had the correct DMA settings from the night before but it had bad timing.

Last night I wiped out my hard drive, reinstalled Windows 98 and all drivers. After, the computer worked fine, but it had already been on for an hour while I was working. This morning, the problem was back.

I had the MoBo checked out, and it appears to be working fine with other PCI cards. I manually assigned different IRQs to each PCI slot to avoid potential conflicts - it did not help.

So, I'm running out of ideas except that the MoBo and the sound card may just be inherently incompatable. It is driving me nuts though, since when it finally works it works great. Any other ideas on what can cause a sound card to record slowly and the wave profiler to work incorrectly for an hour? Anyone ever hear of a similar problem, or am I just really "lucky"?

Dave
 
Sounds very similar to the problem I'm having with the Q10, ASUS CUV4X, WD 7200 hd, and Logic Audio Platinum - every other app I've tried seems to be fine. It's like the Q10 need to warm up and then it'll half way work.

I'll tell you this though, I had the Delta 1010, and Logic working GREAT on this same machine before installing the Q10.

Fact of the matter though, and I hate to admit it, is that it probably is the mobo. I've got another machine I'm going to load up and try this evening..
 
Hey Joemix,

Thanks for your post. I was considering the possibility it was a Cakewalk issue, but if you were using different software and got a similar problem, that helps eliminate that possibility. I'm curious to hear how your new setup goes. I'd also like to hear more details about the problems you encountered. Are they exactly like mine? Please post an update when you can.

It is also interesting that other sound cards worked in your sysytem. Maybe the Q10 is especially quirky. I thought I did my homework well by chosing a MoBo with a chipset that was known to be compatable. It seems like maybe that wasn't enough. I hope Aardvark and/or Asus can figure this out so that they can say which of their boards works, and why.

I checked out the specs on our MoBos. The have different Northbridge chipsets, but the same Southbridge chipsets. Maybe the Southbridge is the problem? Any computer gurus out there that can tell me if this is at least a possibility?

Dave
 
neirbo,

I get the crackling and timing problems until the Q10 has been on for probably an hour or so. Have you tried any apps other than Cakewalk? Maybe try downloading n-track just to see what the result is?

I've got an old PII 400mhz machine that I'm about to load 98SE on and try. I'll try Cakewalk PA9, and Logic, and post back with the results..
 
Joemix,

Good idea. I have a copy of Samplitude around somewhere. I'll give that a try over the weekend and post the results Monday.

I got the new PCI card from Aardvark yesterday. I installed it and my system still has the same problems. One more possible problem to check off the list.

Sounds like we are having very similar problems. FYI, in my case it seems to be the computer that needs to warm up, not the card. If I remove the card, run the system and hour, then reinstall the card, everything works fine.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have been talking with Ben the tech guy at Aardvark. He told me that three Athlon MoBos seem to work very well with the Q10: the Gigabyte GA-7DX, the Abit KT7 and KT7E. This seems to kill my "southbridge chipset theory", since the GA-7DX has the exact same chipsets as the Asus A7M266.

WAIT - ignore that last sentence! I just checked out a webpage that talks about audio problems with the some combinations of sound card, BIOS and the VIA Southbridge 686B chipset (the one both of us have). Problems involve PCI latency and "crackling". Sound familiar? Check it out

http://www.viahardware.com/686b_1.shtm

The article talks about a "latency patch" that may help. I'll look into it and might try installing this patch over the weekend. I know there is a lot of talk on this website about how VIA chipsets used to suck, but that they now work fine. Maybe this was premature (the article I referenced above is from August, 2001).

The FAQs from the same website talks about how some MoBo manufacturers, including Abit, have changed their BIOS to remove the problem. Could explain why the Gigabyte board seems to work, even though it has the same chipset.

http://www.viahardware.com/686bfaq.shtm#_Toc518065965

Dave
 
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neirbo,

Those patches work!! I just installed the 4-in-1, and the Latency patch.. killer. It seems like I tried about every other tweak/mod you could think of before that.

I got the PII 400 machine to work too btw.

Good luck with your setup! I'd like to hear how it turns out.
 
Aardvark officially recommends against Q10 and Asus a7m266!!!!!

Hey Joemix,

Glad to hear that helped. Unfortunately, I'm not so lucky. I took a closer look at the README files with that latency patch. They are only designed to work with a certain combination of northbridge and southbridge chipsets. Your combination was included, mine was not.

I spoke again with the Aardvark tech guy (Ben). He told me that since my call, more folks with the Asus a7m266 have called in with a variety of problems. Aardvark now officially recommends AGAINST this motherboard. They should update their webpage soon to reflect this. The problem does indeed seem to result from the certain combination of the VIA 686B southbridge chipset, the BIOS, and the soundcard. I asked about how othe Aardvark cards do on the same MoBo, Ben told me that all their cards pretty much operate the same, so trading down to a 24/96 card shouldn't help.

So, time to switch my MoBo. Fortunately the guy who built it for me said he would swap it out at no charge, so all it will cost me is 4 weeks of frustration. Funny, I actually chose the A7M266 in part because it had been around a while. I figured the kinks would have been worked out by now. Ahhh, the joys of being a beta tester..... Thanks for your input Joemix, and good luck with you sytem!

Dave
 
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The latency patch..

Well, I thought the timing issues were fixed, then I tried recording in 48khz and the crackling was back.. and on both machines.

I got an email from Ben at Aardvark later telling me to boost the ASIO buffer up all the way and limit the I/O's to 1 each respectively, and the problem went away! However, I don't want to have to go limit I/Os after each take when recording a drum set.. that just doesn't make sense. From all I've gathered so far, Logic isn't compatible with the Q10 at this point.. anyone else using a Q10, or 24/96 with Logic Audio platinum at sample rates better than 44.1??

The good news is that Aardvark is listening, and hopefully making progress as we speak on new drivers.. that said, I agree that their web site should be updated immediately to reflect these conflicts. I wouldn't mind seeing a searchable knowledge base and more complete FAQ section either but that's another thread.
 
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Anyone have a good Q10 system?

Hey Joemix,

So you now have problems with two different MoBos? That is not encouraging. What is the second MoBo you tried?

Add this to the fact that your system worked with a different sound card, and that my MoBo is highly rated among users on this site as a quality MoBo for recording, and I'm starting to think the Q10 is just fundamentally screwy. I don't want to trash talk a product, but what the hell gives?

If anyone has a good system working well with the Q10, please speak up!!

At this point, I'm seriously considering keeping the MoBo and trying to get my money back on the Q10 so I can buy a different card. I just want to make music, not be a computer technician!! I expected a learning curve to tweak settings etc., but this is ridiculous.

I'd add a BBS site to the wishlist for the Aardvark website.
 
Aardvark says it's Logic..

neirbo,

My problem seems to have been Logic specific from the beginning. I now know a "work around"(see above), and Aardvark says that Emagic is aware of the problem and will have it fixed in the next release.

I would say that you just happened to have picked the wrong board. If you can get a new board free, why not try it? I hear you on the beta testing deal.. maybe that's one of the determining factors of the price point? I've gone through the same deal with mAudio and an Intel board with SCSI drives.. By the time I get it all figured out, I'm too burnt to record any music!
 
I have a system that is now running top notch with Q-10!!!

Aardvark Q-10
Motherboard AC'97 Soundcard Enabled (They work fine 2gether!)
PIII 1Ghz (OC's @ 1080 Ghz.)
Abit SA6R MotherBoard
256 Mg pc-150 Memory
Network Card
DVD
4 udma 100 hard drives (2 of em config'd raid 0.)
ATI all in wonder rage pro agp
Sonar XL 1.3.1
Sound forge 4.0e
GigaStudio 160
Windows ME (2000 when Giga releases 2000 UpDate!!)

Was a tricky configuration in the beginning, but I kept playing around with the i/o buffer size and number of buffers in playback que.

When I finally hit the right numbers, the system just fell in the groove and acted as though there was never anything wrong with it. Has been stable for several months now and everything works even better than I thought it would... (Praise GOD!!!!)

I almost gave up on it at one point but now I'm glad that I stuck with it...

The Q-10 is somewhat quirky, but it is at a minimum the best sounding and feature packed card that I've ever seen, and I've seen a few......

Good Luck and My Prayers are with U all!!!
(GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!)
 
Looking up

Here's an update and a ray of hope. As I said in an earlier post, the problems I am having are based on the VIA 686 souhtbridge chipset and are shared by lots of other folks whether they have a recording setup or not (although sound cards seems particularly succeptible to errors).

First, here are two good sites for VIA chipset discussions. The forums at these websites are full of frustrated Athlon users and useful information. AMD really needs to make sure its MoBo manufacturers and VIA are doing their jobs right before AMD gets a bad rap for what is not really their problem.

www.viahardware.com
www.viaarena.com

The problems arise from certain combinations of 1) the VIA 686 Southbridge chipset (that is found on nearly every Athlon motherboard, 2) the BIOS 3) some soundcards and 4) the VIA "4 in 1" drivers.

The "4 in 1" drivers are motherboard drivers that are necessary to make IRQ allocation work, among other things. VIA puts out new versions of these drivers constantly. This is good in that it shows they are working on the problem, but bad in that they can't seem to get it right. Also, each revision can result in different problems, so it can be hard to nail down what the exact problem is (e.g. 2 people with the exact same setup but different 4 in 1 driver versions can experience different problems, or no problems). Add to this that the drivers need to be installed in just the right sequence, and you can get lots of problems that seem very different, but are fundamentally stem from the same issue.

Since the 4 in 1 drivers need to be installed before any other drivers, and since uninstalling them does not always work correctly, it is best to completely reinstall Windows and other drivers when updating the 4 in 1 drivers. This is obviously a major pain in the butt.

I have finally had some luck by using the latest drivers designed for Win 98. The driver version is 4.32v. My Q10 seems very happy, and a recent problem I had with Quake II sounds getting distorted cleared up. But, the Windows CD player and Real Jukebox will not play CDs, although Windows Media Player will. But, Media Player gives "application leaked the following...." errors when I shut it down. Some help files also give a similar error when I close them.

If this is the extent of the qlitches, I can certainly live with it. I will do some more testing soon. If I can get a solid system working, I'll be sure to post detailed instructions here, and let Aardvark know them too so that others may benefit from my frustrations.

Ya know, I used to actually play music! That seems a loooong time ago....
 
There is a VIA 4in1 4.35 driver out now. May or may not help things.
I'm using a couple of ASUS PIII / VIA chipset boards with no big problems. I have been loading new 4in1 drivers as they come out, no problems with updating yet, although things may be different with K7 systems.
 
Eureka!

OK, I finally hit a combination of settings that seem to be working perfectly! (knocking very hard on wood). I needed to get my BIOS settings right first, then install MoBo drivers in the right order, then the Aardvark sound card drivers. This took much longer than I'd like to set up, but I'm very happy with the results I'm getting now. I recorded my band for 2 hours on 6 tracks and it went off without a hitch.

So, I am editing my previous bashing of this combination of MoBo and card. It seems like this system works very well, if it is set up JUST right. There is little room for variation. I was very careful to take notes so I can replicate the process if needed. I'm going to write up these notes and pass them on to Ben at Aardvark.

Thanks to all who responded for your input on this.

Dave
 
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