Punch-ins..why???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Altruist
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Altruist

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Overall why do people in whatever type of music use punch-ins?? I know why rappers use them(no breath control)...Whats the deal??
 
It's a drag to re-record an entire performance to correct one or two minor foul-ups. And every time you do there will always be at least one or two more other foul-ups. You can be in the studio endlessly trying to get that one perfect take -- and of course the more times you try, the more the overall sparkle drains out of the performance.

Once the ability to punch in existed, the temptation to use it is too great to overlook unless you are a super purist. Maybe it is a crutch, but no more than recording several full takes and then comping them to get one best-possible performance out of them. Well, maybe a little more.

Besides, who says a recorded piece of music is only valid if it's an exact rendering of a single real performance?
 
Because it's often easier to simply fix a small section rather than try and repeatedly perform an entire take flawlessly.
 
I see. Makes sense to fix one part. What bugs me is I guess is how the puff daddy's of the world use it. I honestly have never punched in to fix a little part of a track. I always find it sounds out of place...Must just be my lack of mixing ability..
 
for those who do use punch ins... how do you get it to sound flowing and consistant? mine always sound like 2 clips pasted really close together... is there any rules to follow?
 
You have to play INTO the punch-in....... if you don't play into the part the same way, the punch-in will be very obvious.

As well, some punches are extremely difficult due to the diversity of the instrument -- overheads on drums, for example - it's very hard to punch-in cymbals since few drummers remember exactly what cymbals were hit at that precise point - and even if they did, the variation in decay and dynamics would be obvious.
 
The guys are right about punch-ins being easier than re-recording an entire take, but remember, if you're paying by the hour in a studio - a punch-in will not only save time but money also. $$$$$$$
 
jitteringjim said:
...but remember, if you're paying by the hour in a studio - a punch-in will not only save time but money also. $$$$$$$
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Hmmm.... I think maybe I should instate a "no punch-ins" policy - could be new revenue potential!!!!


Artist: Damn I messed up that last couple of bars, but you can punch-in right?
Engineer: Sorry - we have a no punch-in policy here - if you can't do it "live", then it's not worth doing!
Artist: (alarmed) But it'll take me several more hours to nail that part in one take!!!!!
Engineer: No problem, we'll just add the extra time to your bill!



;) :p
 
minofifa said:
for those who do use punch ins... how do you get it to sound flowing and consistant? mine always sound like 2 clips pasted really close together... is there any rules to follow?
Click to expand...

What Blue bear said, but it's more like play *through* the part. Start playback far enough ahead of the "punch-in" to get your groove going, and play past the "punch-out".

Plus, when possible, use "auto-punch" and set your in and out points where there's a momentary silence in the part.
 
If you work on a computer, just start the actual punch in a little bit early, and play through it a little bit over the punch out point. Later on you can edit the spot of the punch in/out, and crossfade the old and new parts. Very seamless. I've even done punch-ins with full drums, starting the recording (and playing) a couple of bars early, then you get all of the cymbal and kit resonance happening, and by the time the true punch-in point comes along, it sounds pretty seamless. Then just go back and edit the punch point to where you want it...
 
...

Blue Bear that little bit there would make a great comedy sketch, that was classic :)

peace
LB
 
Also, make sure that your punch in/out points are at "audio zero crossings" (where the amplitude of the sound wave is at zero). In the software I use (SONAR), there's a "Snap to Audio Zero Crossings" snap setting, which helps find those more easily.
 
guttadaj said:
Also, make sure that your punch in/out points are at "audio zero crossings" (where the amplitude of the sound wave is at zero). In the software I use (SONAR), there's a "Snap to Audio Zero Crossings" snap setting, which helps find those more easily.
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That's unique to certain s/w I guess.... on many apps you're not punching-in at all, you're layering on top of a part.

And it certainly isn't an issue using the HD24 or ADATs....

You should EDIT on zero crossings to avoid snap/pop artifacts, but I've not heard it as an issue during punches.
 
Oh - good to know. I guess I was putting more into setting more punch points than I needed to be. It actually makes sense now that you point it out that it's just important during editing, because I guess when you punch in/out, there's nothing to say that the audio coming in will be at a zero crossing anyway. Another juicy nugget of knowledge - thanks, Blue Bear! :)

Sorry for the misinformation... :o
 
Actually me and my cuz are starting a studio in the process of the paper work but the ppl that we don't charge that is going to do an album with us we don't let them punch in because like we told them you can't punch in if your on stage but ppl that's paying we will punch them in all day long if they want we don't like to but hey it's there money
 
WTF is the problem with people not understanding the use of a goddamn period, lately?????????????? At least half a dozen posts in the last day!

If people expect to get answers, the least they could is make their fucking posts easy to read...................

Have they stopped teaching grammar in school now?????????? Crimony!

:rolleyes:
 
BB, thanks from the rest of us for taking on the bad guy roll for a while on that one.

Wayne
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
As well, some punches are extremely difficult due to the diversity of the instrument -- overheads on drums, for example - it's very hard to punch-in cymbals since few drummers remember exactly what cymbals were hit at that precise point - and even if they did, the variation in decay and dynamics would be obvious.
Click to expand...

Vocals too, because the singer isn't always at the exact same position on the mic. And if the singer is tracking all day, changes in temperature will also alter the sound.

Typically I will punch in guitars during tracking since the level and sound is consistent, and do a ton of vocal takes and edit them later to produce a final perfect vocal take.

Cy
 
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