Prostituting your work.

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tsg2003

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At one point or another, most who've grown up aspiring to be the next 'big thing' realize that they can't be the voice of youth forever (except possibly Mick Jagger :)).

In that, at 35+ years of age you may be in a 'different place' than that of the average 'popular' listening audience, hardly able to relate to the masses you once targeted.

What I'm trying to get at here, is while some may lose the ability and/or desire to shape the youth of today with their music, dead song-writers they (we?) are not.

There are obviously plently of examples of musicians/stars over 35 and then some in music and entertainment. However a glancing look at the who's who of todays 'pop' and well, I think my point is made.

Myself for example... I'm in my early 30's- spent a lot of time playing in many, many different area bands- with some moderate success (I use that term very loosely;)).

I no longer have the real ambition to try to 'make it' in the industry. I do however still have the love of music as I did when I was a kid first getting into it.

For the song-writer who wants to peddle their works.. what are some of the options/experiences or stories that some of you have in dealing with this sort of situation?

Has anyone here bought or sold works?

I'm simply interested engaging people in a stimulating conversation on the topic.

Anyone? :)
 
tsg2003 said:
At one point or another, most who've grown up aspiring to be the next 'big thing' realize that they can't be the voice of youth forever (except possibly Mick Jagger :)).

In that, at 35+ years of age you may be in a 'different place' than that of the average 'popular' listening audience, hardly able to relate to the masses you once targeted.

What I'm trying to get at here, is while some may lose the ability and/or desire to shape the youth of today with their music, dead song-writers they (we?) are not.

There are obviously plently of examples of musicians/stars over 35 and then some in music and entertainment. However a glancing look at the who's who of todays 'pop' and well, I think my point is made.

Myself for example... I'm in my early 30's- spent a lot of time playing in many, many different area bands- with some moderate success (I use that term very loosely;)).

I no longer have the real ambition to try to 'make it' in the industry. I do however still have the love of music as I did when I was a kid first getting into it.

For the song-writer who wants to peddle their works.. what are some of the options/experiences or stories that some of you have in dealing with this sort of situation?

Has anyone here bought or sold works?

I'm simply interested engaging people in a stimulating conversation on the topic.

Anyone? :)
Click to expand...


Go to Nashville
Go to Nashville
Go to Nashville
Crap did I say that out loud 3 times
It does not matter how old you are if you want to write songs but if you want to be inspired or get really depressed go to Nashville.
Most nights you can go out and catch songwriters one after another playing new material for whoever will listen. The Hall of Fame is Mondays, Bluebird is almost every night and there is tons more. Its all about networking from there on.
Its the only place in the world where the guy flipping your burger the girl at the front desk of the hotel and the guy at the car wash are songwriters. Go to the Longhorn Rest for lunch....everyone is the place is in the music business ...its a culture shock.....lol

You might even catch DH there eating his veggie burger.
 
My take...

"For the song-writer who wants to peddle their works.. what are some of the options/experiences or stories that some of you have in dealing with this sort of situation? "

Well, if you have finaly given up on the idea of 'making it big' then you have to ask yourself what it is you want to do with your music. If you want to just 'make a living' in the music biz there are various ways, like playing iin a tribute band etc. just to make some money.

However, I think you may want something more than that? The good news is that the Internet provides a great way of reaching people with your music without even leaving your home! From that respect you're lucky to live now and not be aged 30+ twenty years ago! Without ever playing a gig you can record your own songs and they can be and say whatever you want, no compromises with anyone else, se up your own web site for online promotion, submit your stuff for review, get feedback (good or bad), and maybe even sell one or two CDs.

Even if you are an 'old' guy you can still play live if you do something that people enjoy and your age fits with the kind of music you play. For some reason its OK for old people to play blues and country, but up till now someone older would look ridiculous doing hip hop, but that may change in time!

There is a great auduence out ther aged 30 -60 who like to see live music and they don'r necessarily want to see 20 somethings doing grundge metal or whatever!! They may want to see the kind of stuff they were into in their youth, nothing wrong with that. So what I'm saying is, age is not a barrier to getting your music out there, but you have to be careful about the methods you choose and what you aspire to achieve.

If you want simply to write, record and get it out there for one or two people to listen to then yes, that is perfectly possible and there are more opportunities now than ever before as the strangle hold on the media held by the big record labels is weakening with the advent of internet radio etc.

Recoginising you will never be a rock n roll star if you're stiull unknown at 35 is the first step, then look at that you CAN achieve, and it's still a LOT and worth doing if you really are an artist and not just a would be pop star.
 
...but hip-hop is all about "props," and the eldest are always shown love...

Hip-hop has never hated on anyone's age. The most venerated producers & MCs are all late 20s to late 30s. Nobody gives a shit about my age as long as my tracks are hot and the wax I spin is nicely worked by my slowly aging fingers. Nobody thinks lyrics I write are "outdated," or "out of touch" because hip-hop, blues, and jazz all embrace their artists regardless of age. 30+ something folks who grew up on hip-hop don't stop buying it as they get older, even my 59 year old moms digs some hip-hop stuff and bumps it in her crib or ride. Really funny thing: when she rides into her driveway with her system on crunk thanks to the system I installed in her ride years ago.

Last time I saw her she had 4 things in her CD changer:

Erykah Badu
Mahalia Jackson
Ruben Studdard
Some Grass Dance songs CD (Navaho, I think)
&
Common

On the music tip, my moms is no effing joke...

Nobody checks me out crazy if I goto a hip-hop show, hell, most prolly couldn't come close to guessing my age, anyways, but i certainly make it no secret. Can't wait to take my daughter to her first b-boy jam. If I'm lucky, It'll be one I'm spinning at so she can see her daddy rock the party jusssst right.

Sucks bad for the rockers & pop folks, though.

djfd
 
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All great points...

Interesting points guys.

I didn't mean to start a debate on age per-se. But you all bring up some valid points nevertheless.

Myself?, well soon out of my late teens I had no illusions of grandure or becoming a ginormous star of any sort (I was/am way too lazy!). That said, I went on to study music in college anyway. Now, well I work in I.T.... go figure.

I still like to play, write and basically satisfy creative needs. As well, I do have a friend or two who still wants 'more lights' in their rock n' roll life. Often the subject of 'making it' (or moreoften NOT making it) comes up, which of course leads of creative ways of finding success in your chosen craft. I find that my one friend specifically has a good talent for writing good original songs- he just sucks as a singer really... :)

So more than the discussion of age in music, I was kinda leaning towards the successes and failures of those who have tried writing specifically to sell or what-not.

I think of the people actually behind Milli-Vanilli for example. They wrote an award winning record that shook the pop culture. Aside from the whole faking it thing... the musicians who really wrote and preformed that stuff must've (should've) made a killing off of their work- how did these people get to the right people in the first place? Or the Bonnie Rait song Something to talk about- she didn't write it, how did the person that did write it get it to her? (or the producers).

Hrmmm, I know I'm not articulating what I'm trying to say very well- :)

What can one do with the works they create- if say they don't have the 'wherewithall' to effectively promote/record it on their own?

Anyway, engaging conversation. Thanks for participating guys!

P.S. I'd love to check out Nashville!!
 
Bump?

Hey Christopher,

You corss-posted your 'Bump' contribution across at least four threads!

Come on now, make your mind up!
 
Re: Bump?

glynb said:
Hey Christopher,

You corss-posted your 'Bump' contribution across at least four threads!

Come on now, make your mind up!
Click to expand...
Four? It was more like FORTY! :D
 
Hey nice thread. I know how you feel brother (this is me!!)

I think though, you need to realise just how lucky you are.
At 35+ you have the maturity and skill to write some really good material and actually "say something" in your work. when I think of stuff I wrote when I was going to be the Scottish James Taylor.........oooh........nasty...and very very silly!

Nah - nearly all my heros now are in their 30's and 40's and write/ produce/arrange/play.

Who do anything in fact but ponce about pretending that they're happy singing to 12year olds about shagging. Anyone who really desires that crap over the age of 20 needs some heavy psychology.

You obviously think you have something to say in your music and there's nout wrong with acoustic gigs, support slots and the jolly old web song selling.

A few things to think about though.
1. some musicians will never write a song - you have
2. Some bands never get out of the rehearsal room - you have
3. Some bands never have any success - even slightly - you have.

Success is all relative what is far more important i think is letting what you are (musician- songwriter) shine out and living the life you were meant to live.

I've often asked myself. what's so great about the "contract" mmmh let me see, money? nup - it's on loan - highly dubious long term propects, do what your told etc etc.

In UK almost everyone I know who got signed when I was playing (back in the day) have been dropped.

We ALL do different day jobs now - so no more screaming pubertal kids.

BUT We have families and friends and our talent, and, when - now and again - we get together and play something creative or put together a wee indie project.

You remember again why you picked up your instrument in the first place and it's way way better than when all you wanted was to bask in the glow of false praise and image worship.

Or you could go to Nashville!

Best

Jimi
 
I'm with Jimi. I hope I will never stop making music long enough to sum it all up into success or failure. There is a lot of great music out there that is never disovered by the masses and yes success is relative. It is what you make it and............................. I'm going all the way, I think ;)
 
jimihey said:
Hey nice thread. I know how you feel brother (this is me!!)

I think though, you need to realise just how lucky you are.
At 35+ you have the maturity and skill to write some really good material and actually "say something" in your work. when I think of stuff I wrote when I was going to be the Scottish James Taylor.........oooh........nasty...and very very silly!

I've often asked myself. what's so great about the "contract" mmmh let me see, money? nup - it's on loan - highly dubious long term propects, do what your told etc etc.

Click to expand...

I'm with you on everything.
Except...the only thing I'd question is the general negativity about 'the contract'.

The reason I'd 'secretly' still like 'to be signed' is the promise of greater exposure (read wider audience) it might give to my mature 'meaningful' material. Assuming we're no longer in this for fame/groupies/ and/or wealth, just to write music and get it listened to, then what more effective way of doing that than having the backing of a professional recording company with all their resources (big money access to radio play) to be potentialy used to market you/your music (even though it has to be paid back IF you start to sell product).

However, as noone is queueing up to sign me, I too will be going down the indie route, and happy to look on the positive side that all that it brings (indepedence/ control/freedom, etc.) whilst not dwelling on the negative (few listeners, negligable sales).
 
I don't really understand. You can get your music heard without a record contract. The negativity toward a contract is just since the record company is there to make money off of you. Forget about major radio airplay unless you are top 40, we'll let that one rest. Getting signed with a distrubution deal will put your record on the shelf but it's up to you to play for the people who will go and buy your record if they think that it is worth buying. I recommend the article @ GetSigned.com called "get in the damn van". As for independence and freedom, you couldn't get more freedom to bring your music to people than what you have right now. Once you are an investment (indie or major), then be prepared for some of those freedoms to be taken away. I guess I just don't get it.
 
Well OK in theory, it's a 'simple matter' of going out playing a lot of gigs and providing you have decent music the people at the gigs will spread the word buy the CD and bingo, you are a succesful indie artist.

How do you get the gigs if you have no following?
What promoter will give you a chance as an unknown?
How do you get press coverage if you're unknown?
How do you keep your day job going whilst travelling around the country doing gigs (which don't pay enough to give up your day job) and trying to do the above things?
How do you create a 'buzz' so that people will turn up to the shows and fill up the venue so you get re-booked?
+ many other obstacles....

I'm not saying its impossible, of course not, but it isn't easy to get established as an independent artist to the stage where you're getting your music heard by a substantial audience (not just 30 people in a bar on a Thursday evening) and creating demand for a significant number of CDs.

Will dirtributiors sign a deal with anyone, or do you have to first demonstrate demand for the product?

You misunderstood my comments about freedom etc, I was agreeing that is an advantage of NOT being signed.

A contract with a big advance and support network of a record company means most of these problems should be taken care of and you just concentrate on doing good music and good shows (and pay for it later).

If there's an easy way of getting going here in the UK as a complete unknown without some kind of professional support I'd love to hear about how it's done!
 
Well, I am actually in the US, but mybe things are simillar over seas. Support from a record contract would be nice. I think that a lot of the answers to your questions lie in management. Some labels will have a manager lined up for you, but a lot of bands find a manager to get them started. As far as being an unknown... It's a big world out there, it will take a lot of networking to get past the unknown stage. Be prepared to shake a lot of hands. I guess all I am trying to say is, no matter how good the music is don't expect someone to hand you a contract and lay out your first tour for you because that is not the way it works. As fas as the "buzz" goes, in general, people are told what is "cool" and what is "hip". Create a "buzz" yourself, don't rely on a record company to do it for you. It takes hard work and sacrifice, well anyway I won't preach, but you are fully responsible for your own career and untill you bring a decent business opportunity to the table don't expect to have a lot of label attention.

Please start reading some articles on getsigned.com, they have really helped me get things into perspective.
 
Andre Segovia was still playing classical guitar on stage when he was 93 years old.

We're still kids.....
 
reel buzzer said:
Andre Segovia was still playing classical guitar on stage when he was 93 years old.

We're still kids.....
Click to expand...

Not quite the same thing. You are using the example of an established artist with a 'name' playing on until old age. That is different to the scenario of someone who is already no youngster starting from scratch and trying to get gigs. Age is not a barrier to performing, having no recognised name IS. That's my problem and a problem for many indies with no track history of being in known bands etc.

With regard to this...
"Please start reading some articles on getsigned.com, they have really helped me get things into perspective."
Yes, thanks, that's helpfull and I'll check it out. Thus far I've been concentrating on learning how to record my stuff, but I'll need to concentrate on promotion soon.

Cheers.
 
At risk of sounding horribly arrogant. The known band connections are probably a big part of what does it.

That said, in the UK we're not that big a community, so making friends with lots of musicians and helping out "a wee demo here" a wee keys part there" gets you known as a good guy and that beleive it or not opens some doors.

You need to be open for the oppurtunity. _ to wit_ playing on a compilation CD, then phoning around.

Its all about people - so pick up the phone and meet some. Go and play acoustic gigs and meet some.

Make a point of buying the band in your local a few beers...why...because we all like to play and you would be truly surprised at some of the contact these guys have.
For example, one rainy night in edinburgh after quite a few beers and one of those LOOOOOOOONG recording sessions the session bass guy and myself go for even more beer.
Meet this guy playing in a piano bar, turns out he used to play with madness (or something like that), turns out he gives us a nod with an ex "named" band musician, we get drunk, he knows this manager, this manager listens to our work...blah blah blah

It's all about people...but more about luck. (Oh and you have to be good!)

Best,

Jimi
 
I met my band at a blues jam and it's been aces ever since! Well mostly aces...
 
jimihey said:
......That said, in the UK we're not that big a community, so making friends with lots of musicians and helping out "a wee demo here" a wee keys part there" gets you known as a good guy and that beleive it or not opens some doors......
Click to expand...

I agree totally with your statement.

I have noticed that overseas (UK and EUROPE) you are one hand shake from the owner of a record label. Whereas here in the US, you are ten handshakes away from the same type of label owner.
 
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