Proper mic technique for vocals / LD condenser mic??

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Is there a standard technique for LDC mic setup for vocals?

...distance from mouth to popfilter and popfilter to mic??

I did a search first and nothing came up.

Thanks,

zip >>
 
I suggest you first of all find an ideal distance between between mouth and mic without the pop filter, then once you have that, place the pop filter about 1/3 or the way from the mic to your mouth. So if you think standing 20 inches back from the mic gives you a good sound, place the filter about 6 or 7 inches in front of the mic.
Just experiment.
 
It's also a good idea to put the mic up over your head and sing up into it. This opens up your throat & gives a better sound.
I assume you mean Large Diameter Condensor (correct me if I'm wrong): they are very sensitive and you don't need to "eat" them like an SM58. The previous advice is very good. You'll find that the optimum distance changes literally with the weather -- and the singer, and the material, and the phase of the moon....
John
 
John Weigel said:
I assume you mean Large Diameter Condensor (correct me if I'm wrong)
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Er.... I believe you mean "large-diaphragm"...

;)

Bruce
 
Most large diaphragm condensers give better bass response when up close to within 6 inches from the mic. The warm, breathy, intimate sound comes from being a couple of inches from the mic. Also, if you have a mic with the 80Hz rolloff switch you can enhance that effect alot more by using it while singing up close. I recommend the AudioTechnica3525 for this kind of singing for around $200. Its really, really warm and the bass response is huge. Its great for soft background vocals or to enhance a tenory mid-hi range voice, acoustic guitar and a million other uses. The only drawback is the lack of detail and presence in the mids which can be compensated by either boosting them in the mix or doing another track alongside your AT3525 with a mid/hi heavy mic like the rodes.
 
JuSumPilgrim said:
Most large diaphragm condensers give better bass response when up close to within 6 inches from the mic.
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Sorry... this has NOTHING to do with whether the mic is a large or small-diaphragm... it has everything to do with the "Proximity Effect" of the mic's directional characteristic (whether the mic is cardioid or omni-directional). An omni mic does not exhibit the Proximity Effect, but any cardioid will........

Bruce
 
I didnt mean to imply that it was unique to large diaphragm mics, but LDC mics being more sensitive in general have a significantly more sensitive proximity effect than say an sm57.
 
I'm sorry... but that's not true at all...

...proximity effect occurs for ANY cardioid mic... it's a characteristic of mic directionality, not capsule size.

Large-diaphragms are not any more sensitive than small, as a matter of fact, small-dias are generally more responsive to fast transients than large-dias, which is why they are more commonly used on acoustic and percussive instruments, as well as cymbals...

An SM57 (which is a cardioid) will have far more proximity effect than an omni-directional large-diaphragm....

Bruce
 
Well its cool to see someone take his job as bulletin board monitor seriously. Were you school bus monitor or school buss bully?? Or both? ;-D

I didnt say a word about omni directional mics or small diaphragm mics. The context of this discussion has been CARDOID mics and the AT35325 mic I spoke about is CARDOID not OMNI. All I said was that LDCs are more sensitive and in sum have a more prominent proximity effect than DYNAMIC mics like the sm57 which is a DYNAMIC mic NOT a small diaphragm condenser. Nobody said a word about small diaphragm condensers anywhere in this discussion. LDCs are used for vocals bec they provide greater fullness and warmth AND detailed highs over dynamic mics.

The following is an exerpt from an informative DAW website on LDCs:

"Because the diaphragm can be made very thin and light, condenser mics tend to be more accurate and 'faster' than dynamic mics, especially in the midrange and treble frequencies. Because of this low mass construction, condenser mics are often less rugged than dynamic mics, so they are more commonly used for studio recording than for live sound and P.A."


Are you telling me then, Bruce, that an sm57 is more sensitive than say.... a rode NT2 in its cardoid mode?
 
OK...

I think what Bruce is trying to say is that you don't need to go right up to a large diaphragm to get that "warm/breathy/intimate" sound. I think most people would agree that to get the most "natural" warm sound from a LDC you need to be at least 6 inches to a couple of a feet away. SInging 2 inches away from a LDC is likely to sound quite boomy and even a little distorted for most people's likings.
Anyhow, to each his own...
 
yeah tuner....when youre projecting loud, as in doing a main vocal (generaliztion), there will be clipping. If youre doing soft background vocals and youre within six inches there shouldnt be any clipping whatsoever, what their should be is a "soft, warm, intimate, breathy" sound.
 
JuSumPilgrim said:
Well its cool to see someone take his job as bulletin board monitor seriously. Were you school bus monitor or school buss bully?? Or both? ;-D
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Er, no... But I'm here to help people, and if someone is spouting misinformation, I will certainly call them on it - not to put them down, but to make sure others aren't confused. There is enough misinformation out there already............................

Not to mention Newbie-boy, you may want to search my other posts before you start making assumptions about my presence at this site........

All I said was that LDCs are more sensitive and in sum have a more prominent proximity effect than DYNAMIC mics like the sm57 which is a DYNAMIC mic NOT a small diaphragm condenser.
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Good god..... you are NOT GETTING IT - you keep saying the same thing over and over again........ Let me try to explain ONCE MORE, then I give up - Proximity Effect described the boosted bass response characteristic when a sound source is within close proximity of the mic (6 inches or so). It occurs in CARDIOID MICS ONLY (whether they are dynamic, LDC OR SDC). The effect has NOTHING to do with mic sensitivity or capsule type.......... if the mic's cardioid, Proximity Effect will occur...

Are you telling me then, Bruce, that an sm57 is more sensitive than say.... a rode NT2 in its cardoid mode?
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Er, no that's not what I'm saying at all - what I'm saying is that the SM57 will show more Proximity Effect (since it is cardioid) than the NT2 in OMNI mode... if the NT2 is in cardioid mode, they will both have the Proximity effect...........................

Ged'dit now???????????????

*SHEESH* :rolleyes:
 
For what it's worth...

My main Mic is a RodeNt2 for vocals and I usually find myself around a foot away from it most of the time. As I am not a singer but have a go occasionally, I tend to talk closely to my mic, the closer the better for me as I like the sound of me squashed against the front of the speaker. The difference in proximity is very evident compared to even a few inches away but the sound is still acceptable depending on the desired effect. I can't get that close feeling from my EV408 in the same way as, although the proximity effect is a science, the mic is different and gives a different interpretation of the same polar pattern

I would consider that anyone that gives advice here should not get too embroiled in the technical side of things when giving advice to a possible inexperienced user. Simple recommendations are better than information on proximity effect that most people other than people that have read up on audio science is uninteresting and confusing. Simple and practicle advice is more suited...


God Bless


Geeb...
 
SAY WHAT??????????????????? Are you serious?

Geeb... said:
I would consider that anyone that gives advice here should not get too embroiled in the technical side of things when giving advice to a possible inexperienced user. Simple recommendations are better than information on proximity effect that most people other than people that have read up on audio science is uninteresting and confusing. Simple and practicle advice is more suited...
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"no... I don't wanna know WHY -- just tell me how/what to do......."

How is that going to be helpful??? You think no one here wants to actually LEARN something???????

There are a number of studio pros (myself included) that frequent this site simply because they enjoy assisting others with the field of audio recording. You apply pro tips to a home situation and you have a chance to get your recordings up a notch... You're not seriously suggesting that you'd rather not have experienced people filling in some of the details about the WHYs of recording, I assume!

Bruce

P.S. Geeb, I just saw your profile - you're an engineer yourself. Which makes your statement even more puzzling to me!!!
 
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Yes, Bruce, I meant large diaphragm. Maybe I need to adjust my medication....
On the other end of this discussion, let's remembre that these are tools and not holy grails. I give a lot of space around the mic for vocals; maybe you like the closeup sound better. The test is how you like the sound, not whether you followed the 'Official Microphone Field Manual' in making your recording.
J
 
Not to mindlessly keep this going but just to clarify...

Dont assume that my newbie status on this site is indicative of newness at recording. While I am not first engineer at Blue Bear Sound, Ive been doing this fairly intensively for a few years. Thats neither here nor there. I honestly really dont care about your or anyone elses "presence" on this site and had been peacably doing my thing when you chimed in with

Blue Bear:

"Sorry... this has NOTHING to do with whether the mic is a large or small-diaphragm... it has everything to do with the "Proximity Effect" of the mic's directional characteristic (whether the mic is cardioid or omni-directional). An omni mic does not exhibit the Proximity Effect, but any cardioid will........ "

Not to get catty or anything, but nobody said anything about small diaphragm mics or omni directional mics in the previous discussion. LDCs are the most common vocal mic which is why the topic of this discussion is "proper mic technique for VOCALS/ LD condenser mic." Bec of their better bass response in general, as opposed to small condensers which are more typically used for capturing fine detail in the highs as drum overheads....which is why I said that LDCs give better bass response when up close. Not to imply that other mics dont share this feature but given that LDCs are standard vocal mics and the topic of the discussion, I phrased it that way. So what was the purpose of your post other than to my mind ...stir things up by being an overzealous bulletin board monitor (best case scenario).
I could care less if youre a "force of nature" and need to wear that on your sleeve for validity or youre a newbie. If you help people out then thats very cool of you and I applaud, sincerely. Fact is bro, as far as I can see this is a home recording forum where people give each other helpful tips for the home rec setup. Like Geeb just said here, straightforward basic advice is more useful for most peoples purposes than technical advice. However, this discussion has not yet gotten technical and I myself dig learning the technical stuff bec it leads to better recording quality. :-]

What do you say we leave this alone and move along?
Start over...aye? Im Gus btw, nice to meet you, Bruce.
 
JuSumPilgrim said:
What do you say we leave this alone and move along?
Start over...aye? Im Gus btw, nice to meet you, Bruce.
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Agreed dude... my intention was not to "put-down" - but merely to clarify as well..... peace, Gus!

:)
 
Actually I'm more into Blue Bear's way of thinking.

How will a newbie be something other than just a newbie if someone doesn't explain things?

I'm also a newbie to this forum but that does not mean I don't now anything about anything.

Peace.:D
 
Ho Hum...

Blue Bear,

All I meant was that it seems silly for people to get into a 'I know better than you' discussion when the whole point of all the subsequent posts from the original question seemed to be ignoring the questions itself. I just think it's better if social etiquette is part of the plan. I have returned here after an abscence and have found that there is a lot of bickering going on. It's like a rowdy pub at times and often seems to choose to annoy rather than to assist in helping people. I am not for a minute though saying that you are part of that group, just that I have noticed some tension, maybe even competition which is so unbecoming. It's a good board though, if we can raise the spirit of it a little without fear of fighting then we will all be better off.

Regarding my member profile, I had forgotten I had one, thanks!! I don't think I actually said anything that should suprise you though, seeing I am a sound engineer and all. I just tried to split the post in half, answer the original question and make a comment on the proceeding posts. I don't like seeing people giving bad information that hasn't been reseached more than most, and I don't think for a moment that we shouldn't explain things correctly. It's just correctly will depending on the person your addressing. Also, if you read through the answers, I think the plot was clearly lost...! I'll keep an eye on your posts as you more than likely have a few things to pass on...

God Bless

Geeb...
 
Jesus, I thought you guys were about to start posting mp3's of your chest pounding. Better than .jpg's of your dicks, I guess, but still...


lots of pride and testosterone flowing there for a while!
 
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