Promise I'm not being lazy but ...

[Bonz]

Hi Gang ~

I read the manual and did a past thread search and although I read many different threads somewhat close to what I'm trying to understand, nothing I read thus far hits the nail on the head so I'll ask what will probably be the most common question in mixing ?

When I 'm ready to mix and I'm monitoring my tracks thru my Stereo Amp out from Cubase, what should be the desired volume level on my Stereo given my volume knob indicators are 0-0.5 1-1.5 2-2.5 3-3.5 etc all the way to 10 ?

My Stereo Amp does not have a VU meter ... Would it suit me better to find an Amp that does have a VU meter?

Mahalo

 

[AlexW]

The knob or VU meter won't give you a very good indication. The recommended volume level for monitoring is around 85 dB. Sometimes a bit quieter and sometimes louder to check things out. Radio Shack sells a cheapo sound level meter that will get you in the ball park.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

You're mixing up your meters, so-to-speak. VU meters show signal level, not power amp output level....

The idea for signal level is keeping the signal as far away from the noise floor of your rig as possible, while maintaining the headroom of your gear so that you don't clip the signal (which causes distortion, which causes very bad sound - particularly digital distortion.)

In terms of levels you want to mix at, that is determined by using an SPL meter at your listening position, and has nothing to do with the signal levels you'd read on a VU meter. Incidently, good mixing levels are usually between 80-85 db, depending on the response of your ears.

 

[Bonz]

This is EXACTLY what I needed to know !!!! Awesome .. thanks .. this little piece of information I believe is what's been causing me serious headaches for a couple of weeks now. I was trying to search it out in the Threads but couldn't find it which made me think nobody else on the Planet had this problem.

Many Thanks

 

[Gorty]

Incidently, good mixing levels are usually between 80-85 db, depending on the response of your ears.

It will also pay to listen to your mix at different levels throughout the process of mixdown, as Alex said. Doing this to check your mix you may find certain frequencies of certain instruments more profound at different volume levels. I find doing this is one of the many different ways of checking your mix.

 

[Bonz]

It will also pay to listen to your mix at different levels throughout the process of mixdown, as Alex said. Doing this to check your mix you may find certain frequencies of certain instruments more profound at different volume levels. I find doing this is one of the many different ways of checking your mix.

This I have noticed which finds me adjusting and re-adjusting. I've come to a point where my drums are sounding pretty damn good now. I'm still having a problem with the bass (way too much bottom) but when I roff off the low end even a tad, it losses its' punch. There are some songs where I play a walking bass line (straight ahead jazz) and the lack of punch is what I need but still I want to bass to be not so much in your face but still distinguishable.

Problem I'm not necessarily mastering these song but simply mixing them down to what sounds good in the studio then burning them as a wav file. The product sounds pretty good (well balanced, whatever) I take it out of the cpu bring it up stairs throw it in my home system and boom boom boom.

Where is this crap coming from ???? My Studio Stereo is 80watts per channel, my home stereo is 100 watts. So what, that shouldn't make that much difference .. right or wrong

 

[LfO]

I assume you mean the bass is over the top on your non-mixing system. Different speakers and different rooms have different responses at different points through the frequency spectrum - either the bass response on your mixing system is unusually low, or its high on your listening system. Check out your mix on other systems (car, etc.) to determine which is more likely.

It may be worthwhile for you to invest in an EQ to put between your computer and your mixing speakers (in fact, if you have the budget, I think most people would say you NEED to). My personal opinion is that you can go pretty cheap for this EQ (I'm using the cheapest model Guitar Center had), because it's not in your recording chain. Of course, if you're using poor-quality speakers to mix on, that's probably a bigger problem...

 

[Bonz]

I assume you mean the bass is over the top on your non-mixing system. Different speakers and different rooms have different responses at different points through the frequency spectrum - either the bass response on your mixing system is unusually low, or its high on your listening system. Check out your mix on other systems (car, etc.) to determine which is more likely.

It may be worthwhile for you to invest in an EQ to put between your computer and your mixing speakers (in fact, if you have the budget, I think most people would say you NEED to). My personal opinion is that you can go pretty cheap for this EQ (I'm using the cheapest model Guitar Center had), because it's not in your recording chain. Of course, if you're using poor-quality speakers to mix on, that's probably a bigger problem...

I mentioned only the home system because I was simply trying to put the point across, actually, I do listen to these mixes on several applications, i.e. home system, car stereo w/ infiniti speakers, office computer, son's boom box etc.

Not all songs sound bad .. actually many sound pretty good but over-all there are far too many that do not make the grade. If there's one thing that I do have, it's a good ear. Now, having a good ear for mixing is very different than having a good ear for musical applications granted.

I do EQ my projects and that alone has brought life to many a sound .. usually I flat everything coming from my board and do all of my EQing in two steps.

1.Individual Tracks then 2. Over-All Mix on the Master Fader

which is where I generally add my Compression/Limiters - (slight) Reverb etc.

 

[AlexW]

Sounds like the right approach. Keep your monitors flat. What is your monitoring chain (what amp, what speakers/monitors, etc.)? Could be you're just not hearing the low end accurately in your monitoring environment. Is your room treated at all (acoustic traps)? In my experience getting the low end right is the toughest part of a mix. It helps to really learn your monitors as well as your go-to reference systems (car stereo, home stereo, etc.) in terms of the way they sound with well mixed songs you're familiar with. You can then try and achieve a similar tonal balance across them. Ideally you want to find a method to mix on your monitors which translates well to all of the other systems, saving time & CD-R's. If the low end response on your monitors is lacking, you may consider investing in a sub. But oftentimes room acoustics can be as a big a culprit.

 

[LfO]

Nevermind

Now, having a good ear for mixing is very different than having a good ear for musical applications granted.

I wish you weren't so very right...

 

[Bonz]

Nevermind



I wish you weren't so very right...

My Friend ~ I enjoy & greatly appreciate any and all suggestions. Many of the people on this Forum are serious engineers and have their shit together (so to speak) I mean I read some of the Post and their talkin about stuff that I've never heard about nor cared about up til now. Things like room pressure variances and signal to noise ratios .. on and on til I have to get a drink

But you never know when that one piece of info comes your way that you're looking for and I take EVERYBODIES suggestions with consideration.

As for the ear issue, yeah I can pick out the smallest little sound way in the back of a full orchestra and probably tell you what instrument it is but I can not hear the same when it comes to mixing ... YET

 

[Bonz]

Sounds like the right approach. Keep your monitors flat. What is your monitoring chain (what amp, what speakers/monitors, etc.)? Could be you're just not hearing the low end accurately in your monitoring environment. Is your room treated at all (acoustic traps)? In my experience getting the low end right is the toughest part of a mix. It helps to really learn your monitors as well as your go-to reference systems (car stereo, home stereo, etc.) in terms of the way they sound with well mixed songs you're familiar with. You can then try and achieve a similar tonal balance across them. Ideally you want to find a method to mix on your monitors which translates well to all of the other systems, saving time & CD-R's. If the low end response on your monitors is lacking, you may consider investing in a sub. But oftentimes room acoustics can be as a big a culprit.

IF you don't mind could you elaborate a little about using Sub-Mixers? How would that give me the Bass response that I need for my particular style of writing ... Jazz Fusion? I was listening to Dave Weckl's 'Hard Wired' the other day and I was in awe of the mix. Given that Dave is the featured musician, you'd think his drums would be front and center but each and every instrument was prominent but you could hear the Drums with the utmost clarity. Whomever did the Mixing/Mastering is Da Kine -- oops I mean got his stuff down.

I wrote this song that has a Jaco P. type lead-in along with nothing but a 7/8 signature ride and hi-hat that last for 16 measures. Sounds very good until you hit measure 17 where all other instruments come in and there goes the bass .. lost in the sauce. So would a sub-mixer help with this?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I wrote this song that has a Jaco P. type lead-in along with nothing but a 7/8 signature ride and hi-hat that last for 16 measures. Sounds very good until you hit measure 17 where all other instruments come in and there goes the bass .. lost in the sauce. So would a sub-mixer help with this?

A submix (either hardware or software) could be used, but that is probably not the answer to what you described.

For small-combo jazz and fusion one of the most important aspects of getting the recording and getting the mix is the clarity and definition of each element and getting them to fit right in the both the sonic spectrum and in the rhythmic arrangement.

Without knowing just wat "all other instruments" are involved, what kind of bass sound you have going for you, what the musical arrangement actually sounds like etc. It's hard to prescribe an exact recipe, but making sure that the bass has it own space in the audio spectrum, in the stereo soundfield, and in time are the three perspectives from which to look at it.

AUDIO SPECTRUM
Other instruments that don't have major or imporant formants in the area of the spectrum dominated by the bass could possibly stand to have some or all of their bass frequencies notched or rolled off to "make room" for the bass. Alto sax, piano, higher-octave electric guitar, etc. are the kind of instrument that may have room to spare down there. Also, if you (just using the numbers as an example) say, add a little punch to the bass at 140Hz, an equivalent EQ notch of the kick at the same freq could help a lot.

SOUNDFIELD
Engineers tend to gravitate the low freq tracks like kick and bass towards the center for good reasons. But sometimes having too much sitting right at center pan can muddy them up a bit. If you have bass and drums and piano (or whatever) all at zero pan, spread them out a few degrees. At the low freqs especially, you won't hear the difference between 0 and -5 or +5 in the pan unless you are listening critically in headphones, and even then that difference can sound more organic than having a flagpole right at zero with every instrument haning off of it. But the main thing is that a bass at -5 and a kick at +5 will still sound centered but subliminally will have more room.

TIME
If there's a particular instrument or beat that's covering the bass like a drum or drums, slide the bass just a few milliseconds ahead the "competing" drum. This will not only seperate the two in time, but it will add emphasis to the bass via the Haas effect.

HTH,

G.

 

[AlexW]

Not a sub-mixer, but a dedicated sub-speaker; meaning a speaker with only a woofer and a builtin crossover; no high or mid frequency driver. This can help fill out the low end if you're mixing with near field monitors that roll off the lows around 80 hz or so. And again, this may or may not be helpful depending on your listening evironment and existing monitoring system.