Production and arranging for other people's songs...

[SteveMcB]

I'm not 100% sure that this is forum to post this in...

I'm currently recording what will end up as a compilation CD of songs written and in many cases performed by others from my church, stylistically ranging from loungy jazz to hard rock a-la Soundgarden, ambient e-bowed soundscapes to piano ballads. I am producing and arranging these with a friend, although the majority of this falls to me, because the studio (Roland VS840 and Mackie 1402VLZ-based) is mine. Most of the sounds are real - almost no programming, mostly because I am more of a real-instrument guy, and don't really have the gear anyway. I'm playing almost all of the guitars and bass, my friend is doing most of the keys and piano (Yamaha baby grand). Instruments available to us include drums, percussion, electric bass, keys (roland/ensoniq), strings (violin/viola/cello), horns (saxes soprano thru tenor, trumpet and euphonium), woodwinds (flute, clarinet), guitar (acoustic/electric/lap steel), pipe organ, and vocals, and as well as my small house, we have a huge variety of sizes of recording venues as the church buildings are very large and varied and I essentially have free roam.

We've recorded the bones (live drums, bass, piano/guitar depending on song/scratch vox) for most of the songs, but I find that a while a few suggest very obvious directions (and some less obvious which I tend to like more) to go in arrangement/production-wise, some (particularly the piano ballads) I'm having trouble coming up with ideas to colour and maintain interest without detracting from or overpowering the songs.

So my questions to all you in the same boat as amateur producer/arrangers are:
- Any tips or tricks on coming up with arrangement/production ideas when you're stuck?
- Piano ballads - what do you do with them typically? Any outstanding experiences where you've done something totally off the wall that worked great?
- Any advice at all?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Gidge]

think of a few songs that are a very similar style to the song you are doing...listen to them a few times....note what instrumentation they use, what type of part each plays, and when/how they come in and out of the arrangement....im not saying rip them off, just go for inspiration......

and if its a piano ballad, dont be afraid to do a real barebones arrangement with some real nice lush reverbs to fill it out.....

 

[SteveMcB]

Thanks Gidge,
I have been doing what you suggest for the songs - 2 nights ago my wife walked in while I was listening to a rough mix (sans vocals) of a song my co-producer had said - "lets go for Coldplay" - and said, "hey, that sounds like Coldplay"! Which made me happy, but worried that I was a bit too close!

It's just that I don't listen to that much in the way of piano-ballad music. I am a bit afraid of leaving it bare, especially as the piano was recorded in a room which opens straight onto the main street of the largest city in New Zealand! All the windows and blinds were shut, but still... The things I have heard, often there's a few subtle little guitar or string parts bubbling underneath, and it always makes me wonder - how on earth did they come up with that?!?

I'm also scared as a guitarist of the possibility of putting guitar on everything and making it sound as if it's my solo album (which it is definitely not!) I know I can cut it out at mixdown, but still, I find that the more I lay down, the further I go down a particular stylistic track and the harder it is to escape from the sound, because future tracks often refer back to it...

Really I'm just interested in people's ideas...
I like trying to come up with a harmony to a part on a different instrument and then playing that part to the rhythm of still another, then adapting that into a part. Or thinking of a texture that's missing (the Coldplay-style song was just too smooth, and all low-pitched. It needed something choppy and high but mellow, so I tried a tremelo'ed high guitar part - perfect).

Thanks for your input though, I will go back and listen and really think about what the track sounds like without all the frills.
Steve

 

[DeadPoet]

I'd like to pre-produce as much as possible.
Think of a couple building a house. They don't just starting laying around bricks and mortar and 'going with the inspiration'. You NEED a well-defined plan of attack on beforehand.

Sure you can change doors, add a wall, lower ceiling a bit, change the color of the toilet,... but the basic structure must be well-planned ahead.

I know everything I did without planning ahead was good for the garbage can. (of course there are exceptions, but they confirm the rule)

As far as being afraid to add too much this or too much that. You're the producer: whatever you say or do is law. And you'll be having those doubts for the rest of your life, get live with'em

Actually, the street noise on the piano ballad could be nice for atmosphere (depends on tune)! Kind of the Miles Davis quote: If you played a wrong note, play it again and people will think it'll be on purpose.
What I mean is, make a strong point out of your weak points.


Hope this helps,
Herwig

 

[SteveMcB]

I agree about the planning, but I got 2 weeks of leave at short notice to do the bones of the album in, and that was that - just enough time to map out the songs, record guide tracks, drums, bass, guitars and pianos. The colour had to be left for later, and in the songs I really don't have a natural inclination towards, it's tough. But I'll get there. I do back myself on my decisions, but I take my time and consider things before I make them! Thanks for your input,
Steve

 

[jmproductions]

Although this style of music is not my area of expertise, I would say don't be afraid to keep it simple. Especially on a piano ballad, I would probably limit it to 2-3 instruments for accompaniment. It only takes maybe a strange sounding drum to give it some flavor or a well placed groove. More often than not, less is more.

 

[Henri Devill]

Have fun!Keep it simple..The production will "show" itself to a degree as the songs grow..The most important thing is to capture the emotion of the tune..if something doesn't help the emotional content, then you probobly don't need it..But theirs really no hard fast rules...Just have fun..Good luck




Don