problem with midi

[osion]

hi, i record an audio track on a guitar. THen I try to record a MIDI track (using keyboard) while listening to the audio track. As I record it, the two tracks are synchronized since i am basing my playing on the MIDI track from the audio track. When I stop the recording though, the MIDI clip is not synchronized with the audio track. If I remember correctly it starts earlier. How can I make them syncrhonized again as they were when I recorded?

 

[osion]

sorry, i left no information. I use sonar 2. I have an audiophile 2496.

 

[osion]

so i take it no one else has this problem. Could it be the soundcard? Sonar? what could be the problem. It isnt playing back at the same measure it was recorded. Any suggestions appreciated

 

[cstockdale]

This is all I can think of at the moment:

when you recorded the MIDI part, you played along with the guitar. Then, when you stopped recording the MIDI part and played it back, it is playing back at the tempo you have set in your "tempo meter", which is not set at the same time as your original playing was at? Maybe? If this is the case, set a click track to record the guitar part to, and then the MIDI should play at the same tempo. Other than that, I have never had this problem, so I can't think of anything, other than it is something to do with the MIDI options, and which is master or slave (SONAR or your keyboard). Is it a MIDI controller? or a MIDI keyboard? Are you playing a soft synth, or is it an external module?

 

[James Argo]

Never have this problem before. That could be my way to always record MIDI first. cstockdale has given you some hints, it could be the tempo set. You better explain your MIDI setup also (what's your MIDI devices, and how you chain them).


Jaymz

 

[osion]

thanks for the replies. I have a yamaha psr 520 keyboard connected via MIDI In and MIDI Out cables to the audiophile 2496 soundcard.
I play the keyboard with patches from Reason 2 by using rewire.

 

[cstockdale]

is your midi controller connected to Reason or to Sonar? I.e. it can be done either way even through Rewire. I would recommend connecting it via Sonar and then just highlight the MIDI track associated with teh particular module you use in Reason. If you are already doing this, I don't know what else to suggest. I am not in front of my recording rig right now as I am at work, so I can't tell you specific settings to use

 

[guttadaj]

Hi, osion.

I feel your pain!! The same thing is happening to me, and I have no idea why. I'm just trying something simple like playing a single note on every beat to test it out to see if maybe my sense of rhythm is just way off, but there's no way I could be that screwed up. I posted this on the MIDI group a while back, and someone else complained of the same problem, but nobody had a solution there either. James suggested a work around that I might have to try, but ideally I wouldn't have to jump through hoops just to sync up my externally recorded MIDI stuff.

If anyone has any more ideas, please keep 'em coming. If you want us to check any settings, maybe having a few people with the same problem might help pinpoint it better.

Flailing about in MIDI-land,
-Jeff

 

[dachay2tnr]

Is the midi consistently off by the same amount from the audio throughout the entire song? Or does it vary as the song plays?

If it is consistent, I might suspect latency is at play somehow.

 

[osion]

The midi is not consistently off by the same time period. Sometimes it starts earlier than it does other times. It also changes within the same clip. Like I record a long clip and within that clip it changes in the amount of time it differs from the audio track. Like for the first measure its off by 2 seconds and three measures later its off by 3 seconds.
I have windows XP. Could it be something to do with that or with drivers?

 

[moskus]

Just a little question... How low is your latency?

No, it can't be that. Sonar is supposed to make up for the latency during playback, and recording MIDI would be a pain in the @ss...

 

[guttadaj]

Like for the first measure its off by 2 seconds and three measures later its off by 3 seconds.

Oh, wow! That's off by quite a bit. Mine is only off a little and stays pretty consistent - around 200 ticks at 960 ticks per beat at 100 beats per minute, which would be 125 msec.

My latency is set as low as I can go, still weighing in at a whopping 10 msec. Although, I have tweaked it to lower it - used to be around 100 msec. Hmmm.... I'll have to test it again to see if I tweaked it after I was seeing this problem. Will let you all know...

Maybe someone might be able to explain though - how would latency (which I thought of as a delay from signal to sound) make the sounds come earlier than when they should. I thought latency was responsible for things sounding later than expected. (In the immortal words of Vinny Bobarino from Welcome Back, Kotter...) Oh, I'm so confused.

Thanks,
-Jeff

 

[osion]

Its not off by 2 seconds then by 3. I just made that up as an example to illustrate the problem in case I wasnt explaining myself well. It is off by much less than that. I was just trying to illustrate that the amount of time it is off changes as the clip progresses and used random numbers as an example. sorry for not being clear.

 

[guttadaj]

Hmmm.... I'll have to test it again to see if I tweaked it after I was seeing this problem. Will let you all know...

Woo hoo! I guess I can chalk this problem up to the L-word. Lemme let ya in on a lil secret... "Latency sucks!" After tweaking my settings to get my latency down from 100msec to 10msec, this "pre-delay" of about 100msec went away! Imagine that. Still a little miffed that I can't get it down below 10msec, but that's another story which involves me cursing furiously at my stupid Santa Cruz soundcard and eagerly awaiting the day I can replace it with a Audiophile 2496 and stomp it to pieces.

I'm still really confused though. I thought latency meant sounds happened later than you'd expect, not earlier. Maybe we've discovered a new bane of digital recording... REVERSE Latency! Actually, if anyone would be able to explain this phenomenon, I would be much obliged and can hopefully stop scratching my head.

Thanks,
-Jeff

 

[moskus]

I'm still really confused though. I thought latency meant sounds happened later than you'd expect, not earlier. Maybe we've discovered a new bane of digital recording... REVERSE Latency! Actually, if anyone would be able to explain this phenomenon, I would be much obliged and can hopefully stop scratching my head.

Pre-delay latency?!? Really?

Maybe your audiocard really sucks, and it doesent know "+" from "-"