Pro Tools, Wavs, and Audio CDs,...

[TheloniusMonk]

I am a newbie, have some basic questions:

If you have a pro tools file, will you lose sound quality by converting that to a WAV files?

If you have an Audio CD that was created using WAV files, will you lose sound quality by extracting the files out of it?

 

[bennychico11]

typical WAV files are uncompressed. Meaning they will not lose information when encoded correctly.

If you have a pro tools file, will you lose sound quality by converting that to a WAV files?

Pro Tools is not an audio file format. The PT file you open up is just a data file that references stored audio information in your audio files folder. Most of the time that stored audio is in WAV or AIFF format already. But when you bounce your recorded session to disk...no you will not lose any information when you bounce to a WAV file at the same sample rate/bit depth of your session.

If you have an Audio CD that was created using WAV files, will you lose sound quality by extracting the files out of it?

no...provided you rip the CD to WAV or another uncompressed format. And still retain the same sample rate/bit depth (44.1kHz/16 bit for CD)

 

[TheloniusMonk]

So if you used Pro Tools to record a session, how could it already be in wav format? That doesn't make sense, .. until you save it or converted to another file format, it is still a Pro Tools file, isnt it?

Also, how could a utility rip an audio CD with the same quality as the original audio file? Wouldnt it depend on the ripping software you used, and couldnt it be very possible to get a bad rip of the files?

Isnt it easier just to keep the raw wav data files?

 

[gecko zzed]

Think of it as 'process' and 'content'.

Protools (and Logic, Cubase, etc) is a process that does work for you. When you create and save a Protools session, you are saving the parameters that define your process.

The content on which this process works is the set of WAV files that you have created through recording, and on which you've applied various operations (editing, EQ, etc).

In essence, your application creates (through recording) a set of WAV files that you then combine (through mixing, then rendering or bouncing) to create a single stereo WAV file.

You can burn this WAV file to a CD, and later you can extract it from the CD. There is no loss in quality.

The digital process, though roughly analgous to mechanical, tape-based operations, is different in that the latter inherently resulted in progressive quality losses through replication and duplication, whereas that does not occur in the digital domain*.

*unless you use digital processes that specifically result in loss, such as converting to MP3s.

 

[bennychico11]

So if you used Pro Tools to record a session, how could it already be in wav format? That doesn't make sense, .. until you save it or converted to another file format, it is still a Pro Tools file, isnt it?

When you create a session in Pro Tools you designate the following things:
file format
sample rate
bit depth
and session name

Pro Tools then creates a folder on your hard drive and places:
1) a file with the session name
2) an audio files folder that will store all the audio you work with
3) a fade files folder

Every time you press record Pro Tools will create an audio file in the file format you specified when you started the session and record it at a sample rate and bit depth that you choose earlier. It places all these files into the audio files folder. So for example, if you set the sample rate to be 44.1kHz, the bit depth to be 16 bit, and the session format to be WAV....every time you press record it will create a new WAV audio file at 44.1Khz/16bit in the audio files folder. The audio data is NOT saved with the session...it's saved in that folder. Check for yourself.

Also, how could a utility rip an audio CD with the same quality as the original audio file? Wouldnt it depend on the ripping software you used, and couldnt it be very possible to get a bad rip of the files?

Isnt it easier just to keep the raw wav data files?

Red book audio CDs are encoded at 44.1kHz, 16 bit. As long as you rip to an uncompressed audio file format (ie. WAV) at 44.1kHz/16 bit file, you will not lose any quality. It's basically a straight digital copy.
Yes, it's possible to rip a bad file if the ripper glitches or the drive has problems or many other reasons...but WAV is typically uncompressed and as long as you retain the same sample rate/bit depth as the original file...you won't be losing any information.

 

[TheloniusMonk]

Could you rip the WAV files off of any CD that is sold in stores today?

Usually when I would do this with Audio Grabber or other utilities, I would get popping noises and all sorts of glitches, and I very early on concluded that it was very hard to duplicate a CD perfectly...

I still don't see the benefit of getting a utility to rip wav files, rather then just keeping the wav files in a data disc format, where they can easily be copied as files...

Gecko suggested CDex in another thread... do you recommend any utilities?

 

[Murdersgalore]

Those pops and clicks are called jitter errors and they are cause either by scratches on the disc or a shit cd drive. Yes you can rip store bought cd's, there is no copy protection for audio cds.

 

[TheloniusMonk]

Those pops and clicks are called jitter errors and they are cause either by scratches on the disc or a shit cd drive. Yes you can rip store bought cd's, there is no copy protection for audio cds.

Well lets just assume I have a shit cd drive...

 

[bennychico11]

Could you rip the WAV files off of any CD that is sold in stores today?

yes...get CDex or iTunes

Usually when I would do this with Audio Grabber or other utilities, I would get popping noises and all sorts of glitches, and I very early on concluded that it was very hard to duplicate a CD perfectly...

then it's either a problem with the CD, CD drive, or the audio program you're using. I rip files all the time...duplicating a CD is very common.

I still don't see the benefit of getting a utility to rip wav files, rather then just keeping the wav files in a data disc format, where they can easily be copied as files...

the files on a CD aren't in WAV format. They are in Red Book audio format. Both formats, however, are encoded in PCM (pulse code modulation). WAV is a format used by computers and is not a format that can be read by CD players. You can't drag and drop audio files off of a CD directly onto your computer. They need to be ripped off the CD and converted into another format. This is where rippers come in.
Again, convert a CD track to a 44.1kHz/16bit WAV file and you will have no loss in quality.

 

[TheloniusMonk]

yes...get CDex or iTunes




then it's either a problem with the CD, CD drive, or the audio program you're using. I rip files all the time...duplicating a CD is very common.





the files on a CD aren't in WAV format. They are in Red Book audio format. Both formats, however, are encoded in PCM (pulse code modulation). WAV is a format used by computers and is not a format that can be read by CD players. You can't drag and drop audio files off of a CD directly onto your computer. They need to be ripped off the CD and converted into another format. This is where rippers come in.
Again, convert a CD track to a 44.1kHz/16bit WAV file and you will have no loss in quality.

Ok, I finally think I understand this.. thanks

 

[Murdersgalore]

I remember CDex....great old program.