Sjoko, Shailat, Skippy, Track Rat... – guitar depth

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Bruce, nxt time me and Rog do lunch I'll ask him. :D I'm 99% sure Two Against Nature was recorded all digital. This is only a guess but I'd say a ribbon mic (RCA, Coles?) onthe grill and either a stereo pair or a figure of 8 doing M/S for the depth. Just a guess. Also I'm sure the Pre's has a lot to do with it; a GML or something.
 
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The speculation above is good, and I bet very close, but the best way is to go to the man himself....

ww.rogernichols.com

I know he's a computer nut, so he will probably get back to within a day or so...

Plus his site is great.....

BG
 
Track Rat said:
Bruce, nxt time me and Rog do lunch I'll ask him. :D I'm 99% sure Two Against Nature was recorded all digital. This is only a guess but I'd say a ribbon mic (RCA, Coles?) onthe grill and either a stereo pair or a figure of 8 doing M/S for the depth. Just a guess. Also I'm sure the Pre's has a lot to do with it; a GML or something.
Click to expand...

Yeah, It was totally Digital.... Roger uses the big Pro-Tools, and a few Digidesign/Focusrite Control 24's as "console"

Not sure about the Pre's.....



I think the sound is the whole combination of great Pres, great guitars, great amps, great compression...

BG
 
BG,

You left out great talent and great experience. In this case, on both sides of the glass.

Queue
 
As far as doing guitars on a totally digital system, Steve Vai did a song called Melissa's Garden on his Seventh Song CD and he said he used nothing but ProTools for it. Its 64 tracks of just guitar. He said he is now convinced that ProTools can get exceptionally close to analog, mind you he has quite the setup at home, you know the typical home studio with 2 models of Studer 24 tracks machines (800 & 827) 40 input, 40 channel API with GML, and tons of other toys. Since Steve is what one might call a guitar freak, if he says you can do it Im sure there is some validity added to Roger Nichols usage of PT. I don't know whether or not Steve or Roger had the mastering done digital or analog, some mastering folks run it through analog stuff to add a bit of that....smoothness tube thang. One way to keep your guitars smooth is to track a electric acoustic like a 335 with a condenser at the F-holes and mic a nice tube combo with a condenser, then you go back and double track on top of that. Depending on what tones your geting out of that set up, you push the clearest tonalities to the front and pan with some pre delay the mic'd signal right 5 and left 8, you can also add a third condenser to the mix by putting a large dia condenser about 6 feet away an up a tad to capture some ambient resonance. I think guys like Roger know the setup for great guitar tone is independent of what console your using to some extent, most of the equipment at their level is transparent enough that its all in the pre-console signal chain. Just spouting off the life of a typical guitarist in the studio trying to....get that sound :0)

Peace,
Dennis
 
Bruce what exactly do you mean when you say "depth"? Most of the Steely Dan stuff I have heard uses that typical blues/jazz sound for quite a thin overdriven sound which suits the music. "Deep" isn't a term I would use to describe it. Perhaps I should download this track and have a listen...
 
Queue said:
BG,

You left out great talent and great experience. In this case, on both sides of the glass.

Queue
Click to expand...

Well, I felt that goes without saying.... So I didn't say it... :D
 
Love this thread.
It was recorded all digital, Pro Tools Mix Plus, Control 24, good converters and a good clock - more or less exactly the same rig I'm using at the moment.
And the guitars? Listen carefully - its as clean as a whistle. The simple answer? POD direct into PT through a good converter.
The converter and clock combo account for the warmth and dynamics.

As I've been saying (and got slated for often) for quite some time, digital has arrived at a point where, providing you feed a good system solid clock, providing you use high-end converters, its sound quality surpasses anything hereto possible in the analogue domain.

Amen
 
sjoko2 said:

As I've been saying (and got slated for often) for quite some time, digital has arrived at a point where, providing you feed a good system solid clock, providing you use high-end converters, its sound quality surpasses anything hereto possible in the analogue domain.

Amen
Click to expand...

I agree...

But, even though it has been said, you guys are dismissing the musicianship way too much. That is a major part. Have you ever sat or jammed with someone of this caliber? You'll understand then. NOT your local killer shred machine...pleeze..... YOU CAN take a POD direct and have it sound killer...providing you have the right fingers (and plzzz skip the POD debate I am NOT trying to start).

why do so many GOOD guitar players that use the same equipment sound so different? Talk to someone that has played for 12 hours a day[min.] for AT LEAST a 5 year span, and see what they say.
 
sjoko2 said:
Love this thread.
It was recorded all digital, Pro Tools Mix Plus, Control 24, good converters and a good clock - more or less exactly the same rig I'm using at the moment.
And the guitars? Listen carefully - its as clean as a whistle. The simple answer? POD direct into PT through a good converter.
The converter and clock combo account for the warmth and dynamics.

As I've been saying (and got slated for often) for quite some time, digital has arrived at a point where, providing you feed a good system solid clock, providing you use high-end converters, its sound quality surpasses anything hereto possible in the analogue domain.

Amen
Click to expand...

SJOKO,

When you say POD... Do you mean the guitar amp modeler?

BG
 
I consider myself to be a good guitar player, I don't play as much as I did because of having a job and family. Ive probably have experimented with enough amp and guitar combos. Like anything else, what you like is a subjective thing. I on one hand have never used a POD, I thought about selliing my custom Marshall 1/2 Stack but just couldn't part with it. Has anyone used the POD for things other than direct around here? As mixmkr noted as well as others, talent and ability have a large part in the formula. Did the non-guitarist know that tone is in the fingers, how you hold the pick and attack the string makes a difference. Where a person picks the stings in relation to pick-up location and string gap to the pick up makes huge difference. A POD in the wrong hands is like a multiband tube compressor in the wrong hands...it gets ugly fast. I saw a clinic once of a GIT grad running a belt mounted Zoom as a preamp into a 50 watt Marshall head and it was differently cool. Randy Rhoads got incredible tone from little Fender tube combos. I like experimenting with tone, It can kill you or save you. Obviously if Bruce likes it, it must be a great sound:0)...Eric Johnson has great tone...If I could afford a vintage ES 335 Id be pretty stinking happy instead of just stinking...One of the best clean tones I used to get was from a Custom Ibanez, pre 85 model, and a Dean Markley channels swtiching combo, 10 inch speaker and very clean, solid state at that. I used it several times at Momentum Recording Studios in Seattle, I should have never sold it to but Mountain Bike Parts! Anyhow I play shred quite a bit, its not my education though, I strayed from the Jazz and blues on purpose because guys like Paul Gilbert did things that I wanted to learn, I got hooked...Even thouhg my music isn't popular it alot of fun for me, Ive even sat for up to a half hour listening to how a A chord in the 1st pos sounds thru my Marshall.....Nice CLipping :0)

Peace,
Dennis
 
A POD is like any other piece of gear or instruments - what comes out of it is only as good as what you put in it.
 
sjoko2 said:
A POD is like any other piece of gear or instruments - what comes out of it is only as good as what you put in it.
Click to expand...

Very True.

BG
 
Hello All.... My monthly post.....

RE: POD on "Two against nature"

HA!

And I recall in one of Ed's flames against me, he said POD's suck.....

Man, that was album of the year in 2000


Fucking hilarious.....

Joe:eek:
 
sjoko2

It was recorded all digital, Pro Tools Mix Plus, Control 24, good converters and a good clock - more or less exactly the same rig I'm using at the moment.
And the guitars? Listen carefully - its as clean as a whistle. The simple answer? POD direct into PT through a good converter.
The converter and clock combo account for the warmth and dynamics.

As I've been saying (and got slated for often) for quite some time, digital has arrived at a point where, providing you feed a good system solid clock, providing you use high-end converters, its sound quality surpasses anything hereto possible in the analogue domain.
Click to expand...

sjoko2,

What do you mean by PT, and clock/converter?

where can i get information on this, what are these units and what are the best ones avaliable?

thanks
 
PT = Pro Tools
What I'm using as a chain is:
1. The whole system is clocked with a GEN6-96, which is the most accurate clock available.
2. My 'normal' converters are Lucid ADA8824 8 channel converters.
3. Critical items, like vocals, some acoustic instruments, snares, kick, go through Lucid AD9624 2 channel converters.

That's the normal path. Besides that there is a Lucid SRC9624 sample rate converter which allows me to import / export to and from anything in between 44.1 and 96kHz, or even work on projects with varying sample rates simultaniously. This also is the last "box" before burning masters, as it ensures jitter free allignment of data going to disk.

Finally, there is an SSG192 studio master sync generator which allows for clock in any rate possible, between 32 and 192kHz. Tis one is also used when for any reason we have to sync to video.
 
okay

didnt understand a word you said :(

but thats because you have to talk to me like im 2 years old lol

this "clock" you speak of, are you referring to A/D recording?

If one simply records with a drum machine and J-Station via S/PDIF, are us retards to be concerned about this "clock"?

You seem to speak of knowledge.

Perhaps you could lend some advice.

I have a top of line comp, 24 ch mixer. Cubase 32/5, Gina 20 bit, J-Station, Roland RS-9 and the Zoom which I love.

I do all instrumental recordings only.

I have a nice rack system with some Roland effects.

I was looking at the Finalyzer 96 as a mastering device for my final mixes. heres a link to my site, take a listen to a few of my tunes and tell me whatt you think i can add to improve the sounds.

Eddie's Recordings

With my specs above, anything you can suggest to help improve my overall recording?

Thanks for any help
 
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