Pro Engineers: Step up to the plate!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Raydio
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Raydio

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Everyday I see new post in this forum, and it gets me closer and closer to being as good as the pros. I ask questions after questions, but still something is missing. I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!

After being lazy, I uploaded an example song that I recorded for my friends using a Jay Z instrumental beat I found. They rapped over the beat, and I used an AKG Solid Tube, SB Audigy card, ART Tube MP preamp, and Cool Edit Pro 2 to record the vocals. There is no way that this mix is supposed to sound this crappy. I uploaded the whole mix and the accapella. I put a little bit of Waves L2 on the whole mix, but the accapellas only have a little Antares Mic Modeler on them. I want to know....

1) What Im doing wrong in the mix, or what my problem may be.
2) And how you pro engineers would fix it. EQ? Compression?

Sort of like an experiment, so excuse the vocals, LOL! THE NAME OF THE SONG IS "I NEED HELP!"

http://www.nowhereradio.com/raydio/singles
 
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Well I'm no pro...although I could tell you three or four things right off the bat that any pro would echo...I'm no pro but I could help you.
Since you don't want my help I'll just say, dude you rap fast.
 
well i'm no pro, but ....

everything sounds awful centered. see if you can't spread it out a little.

get some better samples. the background sounds like it's at 64kbps or something.
 
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Well first of all, the first guy rapped really fast, I know. The rest of us rapped how they did on the original song performed by Jay Z, Twista, and Outkast. This beat was mixed and mastered and is on Jay Z's new album, so the beat has to be fine. I just need to make a "pocket" in order to fit my vocals in with the beat better. The lyrics were just bullshit we did just to have the track on the internet for you guys. If you have any suggestions that will help the mix, then I will greatly love to read them. Thanks guys.
 
if you found the beat on the net, chances are its an MP3. maybe find a better copy of the beat. it doesnt matter if it was on the album or not, shitty mp3's always sound shitty
 
How close did you mic the vocals? Sounds like you lost alot of presence...either through not micing close enough or trying to add too much warmth with the mic-modeler. I'm guessing it might be little of both if not more the fault of the mic-modeler. People have a tendency to slap that thing on U-87 and throw some tube light on it when the actual stright mic was great from the start. Upload a clean recording stright from mic to disk so we can actually compare what was recorded to what we hear now.

I also agree with the back-track...sounds suspect quality wise....did you rip stright off an extended play w/o vocals or did you download it?
 
I think it could have been from not micing the vocals close enough and using the Mic Modeler. I was just scared that if I mic'ed the vocals too close that I would get killer proximity effect. The only thing I have as far as the vocal track goes is the accapella snippet to the mix, which you can find on the same page as the whole mix. Its processed the same way it is on the whole mix so that might give you guys a better understanding. The beat was downloaded, and is in MP3 format. The beat sounds exactly the way it sounds on Jay Z's album so I doubt that there is a big quality issue with the instrumental. In the mean time, if you have any more tips; I'd be happy to read them.
 
Honestly... doubt as you may... there are BIG quality issues with using a mp3... then converting it to a .wav to mix... then back to an mp3 to post here.
Rip the beat off the album.. and forget about that mic modeler.

Also.. what kind of monitors are you using? You should be able to really tell the difference between a mp3 and a .wav.

xoxox
 
Well, Im currently recording in Cool Edit Pro2 so u can import Mp3s to the multitrack. Thats what I did, so I never had a Wav file to begin with. I am monitoring on Mackie HR824's, but the MP3 sounds as good as the one on the album. Any more tips?
 
hmm

yo, keep the sb card only for listening to your music once it's being referenced in regular stereo speakers, as far as monitoring and tracking, get a proffessional card. that art tube preamp, i been there and done that get a better preamp. if you are serious about what you are doing get a professional sound card. i have the lynxone. check out the delta 1010 on ebay or the advertising forum on here. the mic modeler is crap, if that thing could mimic expensive mics, everyone would have it.

if you don't want to get too close to the mic for proximity, compress your vocals. compression is the same principle as getting closer too the mic, but without the sposives. higher frequency sounds are picked up better than low ones when you record from a distance, but when you compress the vocals you are getting more low end out of it. i hope i cleared some things up. if you don't listen to anything else i have said, pleas believe me on the sound card, it's made for (listening) to video games, mp3's, not for recording.

using the instrumental was smart, but you have to keep in mind that you may still sound lifeless on it because your vocals are not recorded through expensive analog equipment and then mastered through expensive analog equipment like jay z, 50, or whoever beat you flow over, but using a professionally mixed and mastered beat put's you halfway there, and in some cases that is all you need. you can still get marketable material from the modest set up you have, as a matter of fact that stanksta sounds better than anything i have recorded so far.

by the way, my partner that i collab with is from chicago, his name is urban.

check this out

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=78573&highlight=preamp
 
Vocals are dry, centered, and very close (present) in mix. It sounds like Karaokoe during play, and then at the end the DJ with his gainy mic rapping up the song. Try some time based effects and dynamics.........dry vocal on left 20% and some delay or reverb on left at 60% or whatever sounds good. To me its like there are two things going on.........it's like there is this chatter of people talking, interupting a decent instrumental going on......, make the vocals and loops come together!
 
Good info jug & zallen, also thanks for listening! I deleted the song entitled "I Need Help", but I have "Stanksta" up there. I would like more feedback on that track. People told me that the SB Audigy was just as fine as some other cards because of its zero latency and 24 bit recording, some disagree. Just in case, Im buying another soundcard or an A/D converter thing like the Apogee next week; someone told me that those help too. I also want to know what kind of preamp I could get under $600 that could get me way better results than the Art Tube MP. Any more tips, send em! Thanks!
 
Yo Raydio:

The Grace Design 101 is a high end mic pre with good ratings; however, it only has one input which might be juggled with a patch plug for two mics.

You can check out Grace Design on the net. Street price is between 600 & 700 hundred pezzutos.

How are things in Chi-town. I grew up there and used to hang out at the Chicago and Oriental theaters every weekend to see the stage shows. Once watched Dizzy Gillespie play at the Capitol lounge while waiting for a Greyhound bus. He was tops.

Green Hornet :D :p :D
 
yo radio

you may want to check the specs on that card, i think it only records 16 or 20 and plays back 24bit. i had it and sold it on ebay so i can get the lynx one.
 
Cool! Any other good mic pres in that price range? Also Jug, someone told me the same thing you just posted. I think I will try to go with a Lynx or Delta. Will it effect how my Mackie Monitors sound, my vocal quality, or will there be any noticable significance at all? Let me know.

P.S. --------- Green Hornet, Chicago is cold as heck right now. The Chicago theater rarely has great shows like they used to. I've never been to the Oriental before, but I heard it was nice. Right now I'm trying to network and travel with whoever could put me in the right hands of the industry. Basically, Chicago is still a constant hustling city, lol; nothing has changed since.
 
try a firestation.......better pre's in it than the delta. Apogee is the BEST for conversion of A/D D/A ........nice pick!
 
Raydio said:
Cool! Any other good mic pres in that price range? Also Jug, someone told me the same thing you just posted. I think I will try to go with a Lynx or Delta. Will it effect how my Mackie Monitors sound, my vocal quality, or will there be any noticable significance at all? Let me know.

P.S. --------- Green Hornet, Chicago is cold as heck right now. The Chicago theater rarely has great shows like they used to. I've never been to the Oriental before, but I heard it was nice. Right now I'm trying to network and travel with whoever could put me in the right hands of the industry. Basically, Chicago is still a constant hustling city, lol; nothing has changed since.
Click to expand...

the focusrite preamps are class A and are in this price range.
 
Raydio said:
Cool! Any other good mic pres in that price range? Also Jug, someone told me the same thing you just posted. I think I will try to go with a Lynx or Delta. Will it effect how my Mackie Monitors sound, my vocal quality, or will there be any noticable significance at all? Let me know.

P.S. --------- Green Hornet, Chicago is cold as heck right now. The Chicago theater rarely has great shows like they used to. I've never been to the Oriental before, but I heard it was nice. Right now I'm trying to network and travel with whoever could put me in the right hands of the industry. Basically, Chicago is still a constant hustling city, lol; nothing has changed since.
Click to expand...

I peeped out the Stanksta.

1st. For what your doing the MP3 shouldnt be all that bad if it was encoded good and if you compared it to the CD and it's at least close.
2. Although it's a instrumental, it has prolly been processed already with some post processing or mastering mainly geared for 12" vinyl. This would make it harder for you to sit your vox in there without pusing them too much. Would be better if you had the original mixdown. Call Dre nem for that.
3. The Audigy is just fine for what your doing,, if it's a Audigy 2. Just check in the mixer console under advance or EAX I think and make sure none of that sorrund or effects crap is turned on.
4. Use a little panning or track the main vox twice with a slight pan left and right. So they gotta know their flows and be pretty close. Kinda hard to do this freestyling.
5. Bypass the Mic Modeler and see if your signal is strong enough, if so,, leave the mic modeler alone. If not,, just play with the proximity effect a little. If you have to add a lot,, then your mic placement or signal is off.
6. Use a pop filter. IF you have one in place already,, then your killing it with mic modeler trying to get a vox track to gel with a mastered instrumental.
7. Delay on the Vox, not too much, but with a little on the left and a little dry on the right,, or vice versa.
8. IF your vox are fighting for the same freq space as the other instruments in the song. Run a SA on the Vox and look for freq peaks,, then do the same on the instrumental and move either one,, prolly the vox out of that freq range.
9. Watch the bass of those HR 824s, if you are in a untreated room, then go to the back of the room facing the Mackies, sit on the floor and you may hear the bass increase. ( Traps if so )
10. If you have a digital console or a digital input on your mixer,, use the Digital out on the Audigy to digital in on the mixer.
11. If your doing any post processing,,, watch it... remember that that the MP3 has been mastered already and it's prolly pretty hot for use on a 12"

Good Luck
Malcolm
 
Well I have an Audigy 1, because I heard there is no big difference between that and the Audigy 2. I used my SA to dig a hole for my vocals, mainly in the 300-1500HZ range using Cool Edit's Paragraphic EQ thinggie. My room is untreated and I agree with your comment on the HR824's Malcolm. I used absolutely "NO" Mic Modeler on any of the songs currently on my page, including Stanksta. I added a little bit of Cool Edit Pro's "Quick Verb" for reverb. I doubled my vocals for Stanksta by doing two takes, can you tell? Good info guys, I appreciate your comments as always, keep em coming.

P.S. - Im buying the Firestation this week, should I also buy another mic pre for my AKG Solid Tube, or is the one including in the Firestation good enough. I have an ART Tube MP right now, hopefully their preamps are better than that of the ART. I wanna try out the Focusrite or the Grace Design too, which is better?
 
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