Pro CD Burners - Stupid *More Gain* Question

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mark4man

mark4man

MoonMix Studios
People,

Me?...I'm always looking for a way to trick the digital gods...& grab more gain during pre-mastering (so as to achieve that illusive "industry standard.")

So...In looking at various CD burners to purchase (my replication service actually prefers pro quality CD-R to Exabyte tape), specifically looking at units like the Tascam CD-RW2000 & the Alesis Masterlink, I noticed they have a gain control (see...I told you this was a stupid question.)

So, what's the deal...I am assuming if one can input straight audio into these units...that they contain their own onboard ADC's; & convert/burn in real time?

And my hopeful question is:

Is there any gain advantage, at all, in utilizing these units in this manner? (audio in, as opposed to digital in...I understand they accept digital signal, via S/P DIF, AES/EBU, etc.)

What I'm thinking is...my studio's power amp is a top-notch unit, with great analog circuitry; & plenty of power & headroom to spare with a great S/N ratio. My Audio Interface (out of the PC & into the poweramp) is also a great piece of gear; & I use studio quality cabling. If I pumped straight multitrack audio into a CD-RW2000 or a Masterlink (you see where I'm goin' with this, right?); & kept my peak levels sensible, wouldn't I wind up with a better RMS in the finished product? I know 0dBFS = 0dBFS, but there's gotta' be a secret to achieving an industry standard CD gain...a greater "average" or "perceived level"...beyond the use of big studio outboard compressors & such.

Anyone have any experience in this area?

Thanks,

mark4man
 
The only way to get a higher (not better) RMS is to compress or limit the signal. I don't know what you're trying to get at here.
 
To get that "mastered" sound, you need to have your recordings mastered. As cominginsecond said, it's not a matter of just turning up the gain.
 
Oh, also, you do not want to go from the outputs of a power amp into the inputs of your CD burner. CD burners accept line-level signals, not speaker level signals. Go straight from the sound card into your CD burner, and if you have digital outs, use those. There is not advantage to using the analog outs and going through another D-A-D conversion.
 
OK...

Then let me ask the question this way:

Do the burners in the pro class (Tascam CD-RW2000, Alesis Masterlink, HHB BurnIt, etc.) offer any distinct advantage (in burning for CD-R pre-master) over high end external consumer burners (Plextor, TEAC, etc.)...

...in the quality of the burn (not features, but burn quality)?

Thanks,

mark4man
 
mark4man said:
OK...

Then let me ask the question this way:

Do the burners in the pro class (Tascam CD-RW2000, Alesis Masterlink, HHB BurnIt, etc.) offer any distinct advantage (in burning for CD-R pre-master) over high end external consumer burners (Plextor, TEAC, etc.)...

...in the quality of the burn (not features, but burn quality)?

Thanks,

mark4man
Click to expand...

I can tell you that the Plextor burner built-in on my Fostrex VF160 consistently burns CD's with NO ERRORS. Future Music did a nice piece on burning a few months ago. One tip is if you use a PC/external burner, then set the burn speed to 8X. This gets the disc spinning fast enough for inertial stability, but keeps it slow enough for excellent accuracy.
 
I'm actually researching to see if I can throw a Plextor PlexWriter Premium into my MasterLink.

I think mine came with a Sony - Some came with Lite-On...

So the quick answer is "no" they're not neccessarily a better burner. Stable? Probably. More error-free? Doubtful.
 
billisa & john,

Thanks.

Have you guys (or anyone at the BBS) heard of (or have any experience with) Yamaha’s CRW F1?

They utilize a newly developed system called Audio Master Quality Recording Technology, whereby the pits & lands are extended over a larger surface area, supposedly reducing jitter, increasing data integrity; & producing much higher fidelity.

Check it out:

http://www.yamahamultimedia.com/yec/products/cdrw/crwf1.asp

If true, this would really be a leap forward.

Thanks again,

mark4man
 
One thing to watch for with standalone consumer burners is what kind of media it will burn to. the TEAC's i have used MUST have a "Digital Audio" CDR, where as the Tascam's can use any old CDR. there is a pretty big difference in price here (the TEAC burners are cheap, but their CDR's arent) so make sure you check that out.
 
The advantage of the Masterlink isn't the quality of the burner it's all the other features. It has a hard drive so you can store songs and burn whenever you want. 24bit CDR burning. Built in mastering effects like limiting and compression, fade in/out, etc.

CD's are simply a digital storage medium. There may be differences in longevity of the disc but the audio quality itself cannot possibly be affected by the disc or the burner. The data is either there or it isn't. As long as the burner and disc are functioning properly with no errors then it can't get any better than that.
 
One thing to consider is that are different types of errors. There are those errors that our CD burners detect and reject the disc, and then there are those errors that the press plants detect that do affect our audio. There are brands and dye types out there that (according to many different mastering house and press plants) seem to consistently have lower error rates. Also, different CD players are more and less succeptable to some of these different types of errors. Personally, I would check to see if your press plant or mastering house will accept your CD in data format with an index sheet rather than already pushed to CD audio.
 
mark4man said:
billisa & john,

Thanks.

Have you guys (or anyone at the BBS) heard of (or have any experience with) Yamaha’s CRW F1?

They utilize a newly developed system called Audio Master Quality Recording Technology, whereby the pits & lands are extended over a larger surface area, supposedly reducing jitter, increasing data integrity; & producing much higher fidelity.

Check it out:

http://www.yamahamultimedia.com/yec/products/cdrw/crwf1.asp

If true, this would really be a leap forward.

Thanks again,

mark4man
Click to expand...


That's the burner I use. It's dope. I read some tests were audiophiles couldn't really hear a difference, but we all know it's about the "ears".

Maybe it's lore, but I burn my audio cd's at 2x or 4x maximum for best audio quality.

Use good quality CDR's as well that the top won't scratch off easily. I use nice verbatims.

later
 
Dweller, Tex, X & Paco...

Thanks.

Ran all this by the rep house. They prefer 2X Taiyo Yuden Gold's or Mitusi's...burned on a Plextor (& recommend utilizing Plextor's Plex Tools to check for errors.)

Paco...
That's the burner I use. It's dope.
Click to expand...
Do you use it in the Audio Master mode? (& is this the burner you use to write Pink Humpy's CD-R pre-masters?)

Thanks again, all.

mark4man
 
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