cellardweller
New member
Nah, she'd divorce me for that tooHangDawg said:
I
Imaduck
New member
You're playing metal, yet down on solid-state?
Solid-state is where a lot of metal comes from, especially in your price range. If you can't afford a primo tube amp then you're probably not gonna get a metal sound you like -- most lower end tube amps are geared more towards bluesy style stuff, totally different sound.
I'm personally not a big fan of Line 6 stuff, however it is very solid and sounds like what you're looking for as far as an amp you can keep, especially for recording. I say look into that, most music stores carry it so you can try it out first.
Solid-state is where a lot of metal comes from, especially in your price range. If you can't afford a primo tube amp then you're probably not gonna get a metal sound you like -- most lower end tube amps are geared more towards bluesy style stuff, totally different sound.
I'm personally not a big fan of Line 6 stuff, however it is very solid and sounds like what you're looking for as far as an amp you can keep, especially for recording. I say look into that, most music stores carry it so you can try it out first.
Outlaws
New member
Thats right. No one mentioned.....GET A RANDALL!
cellardweller
New member
I don't think it's fair to say I'm "down on solid state".
I have had better luck with tubes in my limited experiences with both.
The predominant concensus around here seems to be that tubes are better for recording purposes.
For the price, long term and short term, (no maintenance cost of tubes), I'd love to go s.s.
What is your opinion of the Tech 21 stuff as opposed to the Line 6?
Randall? You're kidding right?
I have had better luck with tubes in my limited experiences with both.
The predominant concensus around here seems to be that tubes are better for recording purposes.
For the price, long term and short term, (no maintenance cost of tubes), I'd love to go s.s.
What is your opinion of the Tech 21 stuff as opposed to the Line 6?
Randall? You're kidding right?
apl
Stand Up Comity
Hey, CD, click on the link in my sig and listen to Eutychus, Raunchy Gtr Version. Does that sound like what you're after?
Outlaws
New member
cellardweller said:
Why? You want metal, right? Dime wasn't good enough for you?
cellardweller
New member
Even Dime switched there towards the end, didn't he?
To Mesa I mean....
To Mesa I mean....
Outlaws
New member
cellardweller said:
Not that I recall.
But even then, you said you can't afford a Mesa, so Randall would be the next best thing for metal. IMO
HangDawg
bUnGhOlIo
Check this out. I bet there are better deals than this too.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23787&item=7310825675&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10171&item=7311199698&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23787&item=7310825675&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10171&item=7311199698&rd=1
Chris Shaeffer
Peavey ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, my heart goes out to you. I did get a divorce- and spent about 623% more money than I should have on music gear immediately afterwards- with zero regrets. So, in the spirit of getting the best sound for the money, a couple ideas:
1) How are you recording this?
You mentioned "for recording purposes" in your original question. If you upgrade your amp and get a better sound but still capture it with a radio shack mic plugged into a 4-track...
On the other hand, upgrading that radioshack mic to an SM57 *might* actually be the best bang for buck. With mic placement you can really get a variety of sounds out of even a crappy amp. I've gotten decent sounds out of a (blush) Peavey Classic Chorus 212. Sounds like crap in the air, sounds like a real guitar through the mic.
2) Are you using amp distortion or effects boxes?
Its WAY cheaper to get a different distortion pedal than to replace an amp. At your price range, anything except the modeling devices aren't going to give you much variety from the built in distortion. Its either the sound you want or it isn't- pretty risky if you can't plug YOUR guitar into it and play for a few hours before you buy it. And as was mentioned, Crate isn't a bad amp.
3) Playability.
That Ibanez probably isn't that bad a guitar, but if you're not happy your sound it can seem a lot crappier than it is. Sometimes getting the rught sound can make a guitar seem easier to play. Wierd, but I've experienced that many times.
So, anyway, the focus is the sound. I'd suggest seriously looking at the POD and other modeling/effects boxes because they give you all the vairables except the guitar. Sure, its canned amps, speakers, and mics- but it beats the crap out of anything else in its price range.
Take care,
Chris
1) How are you recording this?
You mentioned "for recording purposes" in your original question. If you upgrade your amp and get a better sound but still capture it with a radio shack mic plugged into a 4-track...
On the other hand, upgrading that radioshack mic to an SM57 *might* actually be the best bang for buck. With mic placement you can really get a variety of sounds out of even a crappy amp. I've gotten decent sounds out of a (blush) Peavey Classic Chorus 212. Sounds like crap in the air, sounds like a real guitar through the mic.
2) Are you using amp distortion or effects boxes?
Its WAY cheaper to get a different distortion pedal than to replace an amp. At your price range, anything except the modeling devices aren't going to give you much variety from the built in distortion. Its either the sound you want or it isn't- pretty risky if you can't plug YOUR guitar into it and play for a few hours before you buy it. And as was mentioned, Crate isn't a bad amp.
3) Playability.
That Ibanez probably isn't that bad a guitar, but if you're not happy your sound it can seem a lot crappier than it is. Sometimes getting the rught sound can make a guitar seem easier to play. Wierd, but I've experienced that many times.
So, anyway, the focus is the sound. I'd suggest seriously looking at the POD and other modeling/effects boxes because they give you all the vairables except the guitar. Sure, its canned amps, speakers, and mics- but it beats the crap out of anything else in its price range.
Take care,
Chris
cellardweller
New member
Hughes and Kettner, huh? Is this a personal favorite of yours, or just an amp/brand you know to be good?
Is it showing yet that I've not shopped for an amp in 10 years?
Damn, missed a post there.
I have a couple of guit. mics (57,58, e609s)
A modeler would be a much easier/short-term fix.
Then again, wouldn't this just be "band-aiding" the problem
So how about those Sansamp modelers? I've rarely heard them compared against the line 6/POD stuff, but the one or two times I have, I believe it was thought that the Sansamp modelers were better...
Damn, lots of info here...
Thanks guys.
Is it showing yet that I've not shopped for an amp in 10 years?
Damn, missed a post there.
I have a couple of guit. mics (57,58, e609s)
A modeler would be a much easier/short-term fix.
Then again, wouldn't this just be "band-aiding" the problem
So how about those Sansamp modelers? I've rarely heard them compared against the line 6/POD stuff, but the one or two times I have, I believe it was thought that the Sansamp modelers were better...
Damn, lots of info here...
Thanks guys.
Last edited:
sile2001
_|_
There's a fundamental difference between the SansAmp "modellers" and the other modellers (POD, VAmp, etc.). The other modellers try to model actual amps. They try to emulate the final sound of that amplifier. The SansAmp "modellers" try to model the reaction of tubes, not amps. The SansAmps react more like a tube amp because that's what they are trying to replicate...a tube amp....not a Marshall stack or a Fender Twin (although these happen to also be tube amps). As a byproduct, the SansAmps allow you to get some very convincing tones along the lines of Marshall or Fender or whoever, but they also have their own original tones because they are just emulating tubes, not amps.
cellardweller
New member
So the Sans is considered an "emulator", not a modeler?
What I've kinda always held against the modelers, is a couple of bad recordings I've heard using them. The latest being Killswitch Engage "the end of heartache". Don't get me wrong, there are some decent guitar sounds on the CD, but what happens during the chorus of the abovementioned title track? It's all muck and mire, no definition... It sounds like ass to me, and ruins the song (along with a couple of other things)...
Okay, sorry. That was a tangent.
There is just no replacement for "live and learn". I just wish I could afford to live a little better while paying the price to learn.
Thanks again guys, I'm beginning to feel like I'm kicking the dead horse again...
What I've kinda always held against the modelers, is a couple of bad recordings I've heard using them. The latest being Killswitch Engage "the end of heartache". Don't get me wrong, there are some decent guitar sounds on the CD, but what happens during the chorus of the abovementioned title track? It's all muck and mire, no definition... It sounds like ass to me, and ruins the song (along with a couple of other things)...
Okay, sorry. That was a tangent.
There is just no replacement for "live and learn". I just wish I could afford to live a little better while paying the price to learn.
Thanks again guys, I'm beginning to feel like I'm kicking the dead horse again...
Chris Shaeffer
Peavey ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Before I go on, here's what I'm actually experienced using, and use regularly.
1) The original SansAmp.
I just go it out and went through all its settings again. Its sounds pretty good but its not enough on its own to get something like what you hear on a modern metal album. Being a recording engineer more than I am a metal guitarist (though I'm both) I know I need some compression, some specific EQ'ing, maybe a gate, a few options for reverb, maybe some flanging at times, etc. The SansAmp is a great amp replacement and sounds GREAT for what it is, but it won't give you everything you need. Maybe the newer ones offer more options.
2) Computer-based guitar effects programs. (i.e. NOT a POD, but a program)
I record in Pro Tools and frequently use amp modeling plug ins: Amplitube and Guitar Rig. The raw amp and cabinet sounds they give aren't as real sounding to me as the SansAmp, but I have way more options. Beyond the raw amp and cabs there are a host of effects, EQ, etc that all make the final sound more applicable. It sounds really good, though it can take some work to get that real impact...or something...that comes from a...
3) real guitar and amp.
I have a Les Paul custom and a Tele made from parts. They both play well and sound good, though the LP is a way better guitar. A good player can make just about anything sound good its just easier on better instruments. For amps I have the old Peavey and a solidstate Marshall combo (VT50 or some such). Mics range from a 57 to an MXL603 to a variety of large diaphram vocal mics. I usually use the 57 or 603. I don't have any effects pedals: I get the distortion sound I want via amp, guitar, and mic choice and add the effects in Pro Tools. Typically I'm only adding reverb and maybe a gate. I'll EQ if need in PT, but I try to do that at the amp.
Why all the detail? Because it takes a lot to get anything close to Dime's final sound on CD. That's well recorded on classy equipment, slavishly mixed, polished, and mastered. Even Dime didn't sound quite like that coming out of his amp- except that he used a ton of outboard gear to get his sound. His rig was probably worth more than your car.
That's the advatage of the modeling effects boxes: they give you everything you need to get the sound you want for way less then it would cost to do it for "real." They DO take some tweaking to get just right, but so does the real stuff.
Anyway, I'd just hate for you to spend $500 of your wife's patience and still not have the sound you want. In your original question you asked if the amp or guitar are more important to upgrade. The simple answer is "the amp"- but it might be something else that gets you the sound you going for. Maybe you a hotter pickup in the Ibanez would do the trick, or a good distortion pedal, or....
That's why the do-everything modeling box isn't just a band-aid. The Boss GT-6's are on clearance for under $400 these days and *might* give you what you want. The *correct* answer is to sell your stuff and get good used gear to replace it- but if you can't play the gear you're buying that's really risky.
Take care,
Chris
1) The original SansAmp.
I just go it out and went through all its settings again. Its sounds pretty good but its not enough on its own to get something like what you hear on a modern metal album. Being a recording engineer more than I am a metal guitarist (though I'm both) I know I need some compression, some specific EQ'ing, maybe a gate, a few options for reverb, maybe some flanging at times, etc. The SansAmp is a great amp replacement and sounds GREAT for what it is, but it won't give you everything you need. Maybe the newer ones offer more options.
2) Computer-based guitar effects programs. (i.e. NOT a POD, but a program)
I record in Pro Tools and frequently use amp modeling plug ins: Amplitube and Guitar Rig. The raw amp and cabinet sounds they give aren't as real sounding to me as the SansAmp, but I have way more options. Beyond the raw amp and cabs there are a host of effects, EQ, etc that all make the final sound more applicable. It sounds really good, though it can take some work to get that real impact...or something...that comes from a...
3) real guitar and amp.
I have a Les Paul custom and a Tele made from parts. They both play well and sound good, though the LP is a way better guitar. A good player can make just about anything sound good its just easier on better instruments. For amps I have the old Peavey and a solidstate Marshall combo (VT50 or some such). Mics range from a 57 to an MXL603 to a variety of large diaphram vocal mics. I usually use the 57 or 603. I don't have any effects pedals: I get the distortion sound I want via amp, guitar, and mic choice and add the effects in Pro Tools. Typically I'm only adding reverb and maybe a gate. I'll EQ if need in PT, but I try to do that at the amp.
Why all the detail? Because it takes a lot to get anything close to Dime's final sound on CD. That's well recorded on classy equipment, slavishly mixed, polished, and mastered. Even Dime didn't sound quite like that coming out of his amp- except that he used a ton of outboard gear to get his sound. His rig was probably worth more than your car.
That's the advatage of the modeling effects boxes: they give you everything you need to get the sound you want for way less then it would cost to do it for "real." They DO take some tweaking to get just right, but so does the real stuff.
Anyway, I'd just hate for you to spend $500 of your wife's patience and still not have the sound you want. In your original question you asked if the amp or guitar are more important to upgrade. The simple answer is "the amp"- but it might be something else that gets you the sound you going for. Maybe you a hotter pickup in the Ibanez would do the trick, or a good distortion pedal, or....
That's why the do-everything modeling box isn't just a band-aid. The Boss GT-6's are on clearance for under $400 these days and *might* give you what you want. The *correct* answer is to sell your stuff and get good used gear to replace it- but if you can't play the gear you're buying that's really risky.
Take care,
Chris
cellardweller
New member
You do use the Sans amp emulator regularly?
Is that the GT2?
BTW, I'm not really into the Dime sound, though I'm far from saying it is a bad sound. I think I'd prefer something "thicker" and "chunkier"...lol. Very hard to describe in words, it sounds like we're talking about chocolate chip cookies or fat chicks
I'm just curious what a GT2 would sound like through my ampeg... or the crate for that matter...
Is that the GT2?
BTW, I'm not really into the Dime sound, though I'm far from saying it is a bad sound. I think I'd prefer something "thicker" and "chunkier"...lol. Very hard to describe in words, it sounds like we're talking about chocolate chip cookies or fat chicks
I'm just curious what a GT2 would sound like through my ampeg... or the crate for that matter...
A
AlfredB
New member
cellardweller For the price said:
Chris Shaeffer
Peavey ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cellardweller said:
I do use it regularly, sometimes for guitar, alwyas for bass. Its not the GT2, though. Its the original SansAmp that came out in the 90's sometime. Sounds great, really. It might give you the "chunk" factor you're going for as long as you have a decent EQ on that amp to shape it with- and I'm assuming the GT2 has better sound or more options being much newer. Its pretty think and tube-y. This old model has a set of DIP switches for eq boosts, overdrive types, and near/far mic options. Its really cool.
Bought it used for $20 from a local guy. San Francisco is local, though, so there are lots of good deals to be had of you're patient. Ebay prices are porbably much higher- but still worth it. Built like a tank so you're probably safe buying used.
Take care,
Chris
punkin
Univalve & Avatar Speaks
Amp first...if you have any dough left over, consider replacing the pups in your RG and get a good set up.
guhlenn
Oh REALLY????
another option is the Laney GL 50 head. Goes forunder 500,- but no cab. EL34 tube, more gain then marshall, but no vcllean (only some crunch lower gain option...)
Seeing your options I would definately go for either tech 21 or POD/Behringer... I mean, collecting gear is really a nice way of spending your cash but if your budget is tight you'll end up frustrated ... i think.
Seeing your options I would definately go for either tech 21 or POD/Behringer... I mean, collecting gear is really a nice way of spending your cash but if your budget is tight you'll end up frustrated ... i think.
cellardweller
New member
Not sure if I understand your meaning. Do you mean you would still recommend Tech 21, given my options, or it would just be a frustrating addition to my existing collection of shit?guhlenn said:
I assume the former, but you know about "assuming"...