preventing/removing hiss from tapes

[paulmo]

i record to hard drive on my pc but want to get a 4-track for mobile flexibility and to play with the sound on guitars and bass, vocals, and synth drums. recording a boombox-recorded cassette tape into my sequencer though, the noise factor is unacceptable and i'm wondering if this will be the same with a 4-track.

i've trimmed hi eq and applied a noisegate, both help but not nearly enough, and the hi eq cut also comprimises the recording. i know there are a couple vst/direct x plug-ins for noise reduction ($75-$280). is this what's needed to get digital-quality sound (in terms of clarity, not warmth) from a 4-track as well? (

i'm looking at the tascam 414 II.

thanks, like this analog forum.

 

[Beck]

A 4-track cassette portastudio will not have the tape hiss of a boom box. The Tascam 414 has dbx noise reduction. You can't hear any hiss. However, dbx can have some effect on the sound, especially at the low speeds of a cassette 3 3/4 ips. You may hear the dbx working on certain material.

The dbx integration of many newer portastudios is not as good as the older models, such as the 244 and 246 from the 80's. The 414 would not be my first choice.

Another option is one of the Fostex models, which have Dolby C. It is not as pin-drop quiet as dbx, but is described as more transparent on this narrow, low-speed format.

 

[paulmo]

thanks for the advice beck. i did talk to tascam recently to get advice, and was advised that buying an older model on ebay will most likely require a $200 overhaul--new rubber and calibration--at tascam.

thinking about looking for 1/4" instead...

 

[A Reel Person]

I think that "most likely will require a $200 overhaul" statement is a bit overstated

... but a brand new Portastudio will give you years of trouble free service, before any maintenance issues are likely to pop up. I've personally bought more than several great used/vintage Portastudios off Ebay, that did not require any maintenance at all,... including 244's and 246's,... but as they say, "YMMV".

The 424mkIII is a cut above the 414mkII, if the budget accommodates it.

The dbx noise reduction embedded in most Tascam Portastudios will pretty much wipe out hiss, if that's your main concern.

The issue of moving up to 1/4" tape is another thing, that the 1/4" R/R tape deck market is a used/Ebay-thing too, and the 1/4" deck is probably about as likely to "need that $200 overhaul" as your used/vintage Portastudio. I don't see the logic, there.

Anyhow, a 1/4" 4-track R/R will produce better fidelity than a cassette Portastudio, if you keep in mind the caveat,... that DBX noise reduction is then an EXTERNAL unit, at an EXTRA cost. WITHOUT DBX noise reduction, your "raw" 1/4" tape may well produce MORE TAPE HISS than the cassette Portastudio WITH dbx.

Something to think about, I suppose.

 

[Beck]

thanks for the advice beck. i did talk to tascam recently to get advice, and was advised that buying an older model on ebay will most likely require a $200 overhaul--new rubber and calibration--at tascam.

thinking about looking for 1/4" instead...

Yeah, new rubber is usually a given unless the previous owner has done it. It deteriorates whether its being used or stored. If you shop wisely on eBay you can find good units.

I've had my 246 Portastudio since it was new, about 17 years now. The only thing I've had to do is replace the capstan drive belt and pinch roller after an extended storage. I did that myself with parts from Tascam. It's very minty.

I'm sure there are others that have taken good care of there stuff as well. It's just a matter of finding those willing to part with it.

Keep in mind Tascam is selling something. No one there will ever admit that some of their vintage stuff is superior to newer stuff. However, many of us that have been around for a while know that to be the case.

Another good source of used gear is Musicgoround. It's a nationwide chain of stores. They even have a return policy if something goes wrong.

http://www.musicgoround.com

 

[paulmo]

thanks for the info...had particularly read reel to reel guy's messages on analog while i've been searching. considering fidelity issues and cost, i am deciding to continue with my pc-based studio after all, having just moved my monitor and keyboard/mouse (extension cables) into adjoining room of apt., where i am not immediately subject to all my outboard gear and computer tower (inspiration issues).

having done a lot of reading the past couple weeks on the subject, i'm prepared to experiment more with lower recording levels, possibly dynamic instead of condenser mics, light outboard compression and eq (as usual) to achieve the least obtrusive sound from my modest setup. already recorded one cd this way, last year.

going to see if the ol' celeron can handle 24-bit this time around

was hoping for the inspiring feel of a simpler rig really, to be fed into sequencer for mixing/mastering. my sony minidisc gives me that on the road, so was thinking 4-track cassette to get same vibe. (2-track minidisc not deep enough to my ear).

basically through my reading i've found the consensus to be that all things being equal (including skill), a 4-track cassette, portastudio-type unit will not give me the same fidelity as a pc-based rig.

of course, if you have a good argument in defense of the 4-track cassette, i'm definitely interested in hearing (re-setting that whole argument). i have listened to some posters' mp3's with portastudios, and know that i could at least get that sort of quality--hot levels, compression/eq, pc-processing.

humble-level pc recording has two drawbacks, the way i see it: the computer set-up is uninspiring in an organic sense, and the sound can be overally bright to harsh. this last part is really my main challenge now, and no i don't have $1200 and such for apogee, pro pre's and a/d converters, or waves bundle gold (behringer mixer, compressor, delta 2496 card here).

i did have a ministudio, in 1991, with the flat color-coded controls. i did not get enough use out of it as i wasn't that committed at the time.

 

[A Reel Person]

I don't record multitrack on the 'puter, so I'm not inclined to recommend it.

It's not for me. If that's your bag, then more power to'ya.

Also, keep in mind, that the "Tascam guy" only sees the units that need repair, or that "$200" overhaul, so it's a slanted perspective, to say the least.

Third point, that the so-called "$200 overhaul" of new rubber parts is comprised of about $10 worth of rubber parts, or less, and about 1.5 hours labor, at Tascam's rate of $125/hour. THAT, IMO, tells the story of the "$200 overhaul". Many DIY'ers have refurbised the rubber parts of a R/R or Portastudio, for only a few dollars in parts, plus DIY-time to do the job.

We all have our specialized opinions. That's mine.

I hope you checked my NWR page of mp3's.

Thanx.

 

[paulmo]

davemania, your vocals and production sound like early bowie. did he record on 4-track cassette? cool site that nrw.

 

[A Reel Person]

Thanx for the complement!!!

I don't recall ever hearing that Bowie worked with cassette Portastudios, but honestly, I wouldn't put it past him. I've read of many "name" acts that had Tascam Portastudios for throwing ideas down to tape. Bowie's into technology, that I'm sure of, but I'd be safe in saying his released album work was done in regular studios, on large pro format recorders. Interesting thought, though.

Thanx SO much for listening!! Hope you had fun with it!! Come again!!!

 

[paulmo]

definitely the earlier stuff. i heard a demo of ziggy stardust and it sounded like that. i even think i remember reading that he used some of his early demos as masters, polished in studio.

as for me, i'm getting better results on pc tonight not using the compressor (vox, ac guitar) definitely warmer (will add in sequencer). read recently that neil young's harvest was recorded with no compressors.