Pre's vs Mic's

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boulty

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Hi, I was wondering where it is best to start out investing in higher quality gear. At the moment I have a spirit M8 desk, Joe Meek ThreeQ, Shure SM57, old 55SW, SP B1 + B3, and some other relatively cheap mics.

Would I be better getting a good mic pre first or start getting better/more expensive mic's.

Thanks
 
clean pre- and colored mics...one vote for

just one attack plan...

get a transparent pre-amp and buy the Mics and let them do the coloring.

another attack plan...
Be like Enron and rip-off 1,000,000's of retirement funds of hard working people.....then file bankruptcy and pad capitol hill weasel lawyers...
so you don't have to go to prison and give the money back...
then you can buy any gear you want...

even cheaper idea...

Old school...go to the public library read books, read HR and figure out how to use mic placement to get the fullest use of what you have. Save $$ for a Top of the Pro line mic or pre.

BS rapbag... What is COLOR??
I saw some old mono 4 channel Elvis setup at Nashville once. It amazed me in its simplicity, and the fact the recordings stand up to anything today..IMO.
Pre- RCA... with huge fhkn knobs and Navy Battleship grey painted metal...
mic placement added color? :cool:

and sht like GoldStar when they made their own fhkng Reverb Chambers!!! that phil spector got credit for??? Dave S. Gold built it by hand before Phil even stepped foot in the door??whooa? :eek:
so what exactly is the infamous Spector Sound?
maybe it should have been the Dave S. Gold Sound.. :confused:

also read a beatbrother engineer book, GM was talking about the pre-RubberSoul albums, the mic placements and set-up were pretty much the same everytime, not many changes or experiments up thru Help.
the beat brothers would just come in and play the tune and leave. so they didn't use 900 mics and 900 pre-amps.? i think "assembly line" was the quote.
so most "color" came from instruments, songs structures used???think. etc... :)

TV went from black&white to color..very big stuff.
Lost In Space,man can you dig it.. IN LIVING COLOR!!!

I gotta go color with my Tascam 2488...24 tracks for $1100 its a blast man..
good morning.

read the very first/top mic thread with Hervey Garst... its the best and he actually is a pro, not just some hyped up coffee addict babbling about books he's read!! :eek:

personally I'd rather have one fhkng U87 and one GreatRiver....than 15 pieces of GC crap. just personal taste.
 
Now to answer your question. I'm always a firm believer that mic pre's can make even a crappy mic suitable. However I haven't found many crappy pre's making good mics sound better or good mics making crappy pres sound better. Its just my opinion but I feel mic preamps are one of the most important if not the most important thing in the recording chain. Now we can get into converters and all that other stuff but to me its the mic pre's you should save money for great mic pres, your studio projects mics will thank you.
 
One good preamp will make you smile every time you plug a new mic into it.
 
when you guys are saying a good pre amp what kinda price range we talking? i.e way above the DMP3?
 
yeah, I can only take it one step at a time.. actually, I just loaned a universal audio 2108 mic pre and the sound was just so incredible compared to what I had been used to. Everything EQ'd and compressed better than before too. Now, if only I had the £1300 pounds it would cost for one :p

If I can get a good pre next thing I think I will have to look at is the convertors, at the moment I have the MOTU 2408 Mk I. It's sounds good to my ears but then I haven't ever had chance to hear a apogee in my home setup so I don't know how massive the difference will be.
 
Lifetime of happiness preamps start at around $1100 and are called the Great River. Below this point you will be buying and selling to find your sound. Above this point you will question your sanity. If you really want to push the envelope however you could get these http://www.rupertneve.com/
 
I believe the wise course of action for home recording types is to go for clean, uncolored lower cost preamps and let your mic locker paint the colors (or even some software plugs doin the color). It is easy to get carried away in dreams but reality is you've got limited recording experience, a limited budget, an imperfect room and little hope of commercial airplay and recoginition (I could be wrong on this though). The learning curve is high grasshopper.

Bob the Mod Guy.
 
boulty said:
Hi, I was wondering where it is best to start out investing in higher quality gear. At the moment I have a spirit M8 desk, Joe Meek ThreeQ, Shure SM57, old 55SW, SP B1 + B3, and some other relatively cheap mics.

Would I be better getting a good mic pre first or start getting better/more expensive mic's.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I think you'd get better results starting out with decent mic pre's. A short list of single channel pre's are below. IMHO if you were to start off with any of the four below they would be pre's you'd always find a use for. They start off at under $1000 . Good luck.

John Hardy M-1 Personal Mic Pre ... less than $1000
Speck Mic Pre 5.0 ... less than $800
Grace 101 ... less than $600
FMR RNP ... Less than $500
 
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I'd go with better mics

Bob's Mods said:
I believe the wise course of action for home recording types is to go for clean, uncolored lower cost preamps and let your mic locker paint the colors (or even some software plugs doin the color). It is easy to get carried away in dreams but reality is you've got limited recording experience, a limited budget, an imperfect room and little hope of commercial airplay and recoginition (I could be wrong on this though). The learning curve is high grasshopper.

Bob the Mod Guy.
Click to expand...

I'll have to agree on this, and I'd like to add that the pres he already owns are not crappy pres. Now I know they're probably not as great as the UA pres he tried, but the ThreeQ itself does a decent job, and is versatile cause it offers both clean/uncolored on its own as well as fully flavored via the compressor and eq. Although I don't know what he's recording, if the SPB1 and B3 are the best he has, I'd start with upgrading/expanding that mic collection.
 
The only outboard pre I own is a Brick by Groove Tubes ($400). I certainly can't claim to have compaired a bunch, but I am amazed at how good all of my mics sound through it.
 
Middleman said:
Lifetime of happiness preamps start at around $1100 and are called the Great River. Below this point you will be buying and selling to find your sound. Above this point you will question your sanity. If you really want to push the envelope however you could get these http://www.rupertneve.com/
Click to expand...

You can get a Speck or Sebatron for around $800. They are as good as anything out there.
 
ljmaxx said:
...
John Hardy M-1 Personal Mic Pre ... less than $1000
Speck Mic Pre 5.0 ... less than $600
FMR RNP ... Less than $500
Click to expand...

PLEASE tell me where I can get the Speck for under $600!!!! I already checked ebay and there aren't any available right now.

MrBoogie
 
MrBoogie said:
PLEASE tell me where I can get the Speck for under $600!!!! I already checked ebay and there aren't any available right now.

MrBoogie
Click to expand...

Sorry Mr B that was a typo. I left off the Grace 101 on that short list which is under $600. I have corrected it. Sorry for my mistake. Mercenary Audio has them for $750. Link's below. All of the pre's I mentioned are new street price's and of course not retail. If you keep on the lookout you can get them for less used but they don't often show up. For example I bought the Grace 101 for $350 off of Harmony Central last year which by the way is very good on acoustic guitar IMHO. YMMV.

http://mercenaryaudio.com/speckmicpre50.html
 
some conflicting opinions on here, as I was expecting I guess. I would love to try out some more equipment before I can make any choice but things like the great rivers, specks, etc never seem to be readily available in the UK. I have been looking at the Neve Portico pre but the price will go up before I can save up that much moolah.

Regarding things like commercial radio viability of the music I am recording, this seems unlikely as I think I will pretty much be recording underground metal, hardcore, experimental bands as apposed to any kind of major label stuff.

I want to start building up my setup now so that, in the next year when I am going to look into setting up my own proper studio I will be know what sounds good.. I think I already have a good ear for mic placement although I am still not great at it, I use as much time as possible in the studios at college to try and perfect my mic techniques.

Wish I could try some really good mic's with the setup I have now but I have pretty much come to the conclusion that it's a good couple of pre's I want first. Thanks for everyones help
 
Fact is, if you want a professional sound, you are going to have to spend some money on preamps.

Reality however, reveals that most of us have less money for preamps than we would like.

If you are dying to get ideas recorded then low end preamps can suffice. If you expect your efforts to sound like an album, well that's not going to happen.

My advice, save as much as you can, have a garage sale, get your cash together and get the most preamp you can afford.
 
Mic Pre Amp on a budget

I use a Sure KSM27, SM81, and SM57's for vocals, Acoustics and guitars. I record to a Korg D1600. Is an inexpensive pre amp like a FMR RNP going to make a big difference?
 
truth is, your signal chain is only as good as the weekest link. be it preamp, or even cables. i would build your chain from the front to the back. buy an excellent mic, then cables, then pre, etc. once you get to the converters, go back, buy some more mics... just my opinion. an awesome pre is nothing if you have crap going in to it. GIGO....
 
boulty said:
Hi, I was wondering where it is best to start out investing in higher quality gear. At the moment I have a spirit M8 desk, Joe Meek ThreeQ, Shure SM57, old 55SW, SP B1 + B3, and some other relatively cheap mics.

Would I be better getting a good mic pre first or start getting better/more expensive mic's.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I think that mics are a better choice than pre-amps. They do more for less. A mic will change the sound alot and a pre-amp will change the sound alittle. I have 5 Behringer pre-amps (the premium ones) that all sound different. That is my color if you will. My good mics are my Behringer B1 and the B2. T also have some Studio Projects to cover the low-fi end of things. I use these mainly on tracks where I don't need the high quality. But, you can make up your own mind about this. I love my Behringer mics and pre-amps. I want to by 5 more.
 
A Non Expert Trial and Error Opinion

I have been recording for about 5 years and hardcore for 3. I've had the Standalone hardisk recorders and now I am completely computer based. The biggest improvement that I have experienced are two things...
My Shure KSM32: A non-tube condenser mic....with a very FLAT response and the BIGGEST difference that really changed everything was my first great pre, my Vintech x73i.
Alot of moolah, YES...but DAMN
I am using a decent interface (Motu 896HD...KILLER)...
When I record through the 896HD the KSM, I still like the mic, but when I record through the Vintech it becomes stellar. Many people on the forums call the 1073 type pres colored and say they don't stack well. I couldn't disagree more. The calibre of my recordings has increased tremendously. It wasn't until I got the Vintech that I said, "Oh, that is how they get that sound." I use it over most of my tracks with different mics of course on different impedence settings. I even use it to D.I. my bass. Of course I track drums through other stuff, usually the onboard pre's on the Motu for OHs, JoeMeek VC6s, and Vintech on Floor tom.
I don't have any mic that is worth more than 500 bucks....I've even tried an MXL 990 and it sounded great too.
I say DECENT MIC and GREAT PRE.
 
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