Preparing for Mastering...

[DavidK]

My weirdo geek classical stuff has been picked up by a label, and they are gonna have it mastered. What do I do to prepare it for this?

I assume I know the basics: Give em some headroom for tinkering up there. How much? -3? What happens if a few go over? Especially some peaks?

Do I leave time at the beginning and end or do I pick myself? Its a small classical label and I am guessing its a lil more informal as to protocol, i.e. I wont be guided as much with instructions.

I assume I am burning 24 bit data CDs. Correctamundo?confused:

Anything else you gentleman can tell me would be great. I know very little about this process, what they do, what to expect. How much different is this thing going to sound? Yes, I am familiar with the saying " You cant polish a turd" but if its a reasonable recording, is there some improvement?

I'm frightened, hold me.

 

[Farview]

Seeing as how you are doing classical music, your peak to average ratio is going to be much bigger than normal. (the average volume will be much quieter than pop music CDs) You should make sure that it doesn't clip, ever. Having your highest peak at -3dbfs is probably good enough.

I would imagine that your CD will not sound that much different after mastering. Classical music is all about the dynamics, no one who knows what they are doing will compress the hell out of it to make it loud.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Its a small classical label and I am guessing its a lil more informal as to protocol, i.e. I wont be guided as much with instructions.

Wow, congratulations, David! Your stuff is top-notch work and certainly deserves to get picked up. That's great that somebody of more importance than I actually agrees .

I can understand what you're saying about it being a smaller label and therefore they probably won't have their procedural ducks in a row the way a superlabel might, but I think it probably be good to actually ask them these questions and make sure that everybody's expectations are set the same.

If the label is small enough or informal enough, "mastering" on their end might just mean normalizing and burning the glass...possibly without even the normalizing part. Or they might have an ME and producer on hand or a phone call away that will take it through full sonic polishing and PQ editing. Or anywhere in-between, quite frankly.

And just what they have in mind for mastering on their end will to a great extent determine what you want or need to give them on your end. They might not want 24-bit if all they do is normalize and burn, or if their "ME" is just another guy like you and me, your dithering may actually sound better than his fi you have top-shelf dithering tools qnd he doesn't; in that case you might want to dither to 16 yourself.

At the least, you want to give them sonething that's polished enough to let the ME know what it should sound like in general, but not so polished as to possibly hamstring the ME. But just where that line lies depends on what their definition and level of "mastering" actually is.

G.

 

[DavidK]

Thanks for the advice gents. Most helpful.

You should make sure that it doesn't clip, ever. Having your highest peak at -3dbfs is probably good enough.

This will take some work. My peaks are too high; its not a matter of lowering the output, I need to go in and automate more. The overall levels are fine, I just have too many peaks because I wasnt planning on mastering.

but I think it probably be good to actually ask them these questions

Yes, of course I plan to but I have some free time today and want to get a jump on it. I think I know what I have to do now, mainly keeping the peaks down. I use SONAR3 and the envelopes are pretty nifty, its more a matter of busy work ( which I am not looking forward to )

or if their "ME" is just another guy like you and me,

He seems to have some credentials from the little info I have. The label has some jazz and pop too, mine is more a "crossover" CD although I would doubt it would be compressed that much. I dont know much about eq and am hoping they can do some work there. It might need a touch of overall reverb, although there is a decent amount on the individual tracks.

At the least, you want to give them sonething that's polished enough to let the ME know what it should sound like in general, but not so polished as to possibly hamstring the ME.

I dont have anything like limiting or compression on it. I have it mixed well and overall have the volume in a pretty decent place. When I burn a CD and hear it all together there is a decent continuity of volume. Again, being Classical stuff it has enormous volume range. It needs a little bit more cohesion and hopefully the mastering process can take care of that.

Thanx gents

 

[Dogman]

David, have you thought of doing a cd to send them, with sort of a self mastering job, to show them what you have in mind for it? Or is this not a good idea?

 

[DavidK]

David, have you thought of doing a cd to send them, with sort of a self mastering job, to show them what you have in mind for it? Or is this not a good idea?

I dont have anything in mind Seriously. I want it a tad louder possibly, its pretty close to the level though. I look at it like this:

It's not my area of expertise.

I dont have the know-how or the experience with eq. I bet it needs a little work on the low stuff, some of the violins are a little rough. I am assuming that they will have the ears and the technical expertise that I am sorely lacking. I am just a lowly symphony guy with a bunch of synths and a lot of free time.

 

[DavidK]

The guy who is mastering it is pretty heavy duty, I am impressed and pretty excited. I hear he has a special brand of turd polish just for this occasion. Seriously, he has done some pretty serious classical stuff and some non-classical too.

My big concern is the peaks. I read some places to keep them at -3, others at -6. Which one?

 

[Farview]

The guy who is mastering it is pretty heavy duty, I am impressed and pretty excited. I hear he has a special brand of turd polish just for this occasion. Seriously, he has done some pretty serious classical stuff and some non-classical too.

My big concern is the peaks. I read some places to keep them at -3, others at -6. Which one?

It doesn't really matter, as long as they are below 0dbFS. Classical has a different set of rules than most other forms of music, so most of what you will find on the internet won't apply to what you are doing.

 

[SonicAlbert]

If you are reducing just the peaks, I'd say only take them down to -3. The reason being, this will keep your performance dynamics as close to what you have created and like, while at the same time making the audio technically correct. If that seems like to low, i.e. the music suffers, then maybe -2 or -1. The point is to get it into the realm of being technically correct, and then the mastering engineer will take it from there.

 

[AGCurry]

My answer is: Talk to the ME. Take his advice.

 

[DavidK]

My answer is: Talk to the ME. Take his advice.

I certainly will try to, I dont know the logistics of that.

The main thing I am trying to do is get in a relative ballpark, which is going to take a good amount of work. I have a zillion peaks and extremely dynamic music. Turning down the output level is not going to work, I merely got sloppy at the end I would have been a lot more careful if I would have known it would be mastered

Right now my goal is just to get everything below 0.0 After that I can adjust the output level.

As always, you gents have been a geat assistance.

 

[Farview]

I'm not sure I understand why you can't just bring down the output. The ME will be able to bring the volume back up with some judicious limiting.

 

[DavidK]

I'm not sure I understand why you can't just bring down the output. The ME will be able to bring the volume back up with some judicious limiting.

Because I pushed the peaks too much. Way too much In some ways it doesnt even make musical sense.

My "classical" music is more of a hybrid, there are stacks of synths. I am not playing Mozart in a hall, I am overdubbing 30 violins in my living room. On the tunes that have the severe peaks, if I turn down the output level they are so far from the volume of the rest of the tracks that they just dont fit. I am assuming that they have to be at least in the ballpark volume wise?

 

[mshilarious]

Because I pushed the peaks too much. Way too much In some ways it doesnt even make musical sense.

My "classical" music is more of a hybrid, there are stacks of synths. I am not playing Mozart in a hall, I am overdubbing 30 violins in my living room. On the tunes that have the severe peaks, if I turn down the output level they are so far from the volume of the rest of the tracks that they just dont fit. I am assuming that they have to be at least in the ballpark volume wise?

Could you post a clip?

 

[DavidK]

Could you post a clip?

The two main culprits are Saturn and the Firebird. Saturn is found in my signature, the firebird is here- The Infernal Danse

Saturn gets ( or is supposed to get) incredibly loud as you know. When I turn down the whole output it doesnt make any sense at the beginning. I am trying to orchestrate it so it gets " wider" and " denser" wothout getting louder. The Mp3 on Soundclick is WAY over, if I recall that thing goes into the +3 range at the 5 minute mark. That means I have to tuen the output down to -6 in order to keep the peaks at -3.

Some of this is just me bieng sloppy: Its so dense at times that one cant hear clipping, but I really want to do this by the book.

 

[mshilarious]

The two main culprits are Saturn and the Firebird. Saturn is found in my signature, the firebird is here- The Infernal Danse

Saturn gets ( or is supposed to get) incredibly loud as you know. When I turn down the whole output it doesnt make any sense at the beginning. I am trying to orchestrate it so it gets " wider" and " denser" wothout getting louder.

Well do whatever you need to as far as orchestration; that's an artistic decision.

I wouldn't be concerned about losing volume in the beginning; let the ME worry about that. They would much rather deal with that than clipped peaks or mixes that have already been limited.

 

[Farview]

The two main culprits are Saturn and the Firebird. Saturn is found in my signature, the firebird is here- The Infernal Danse

Saturn gets ( or is supposed to get) incredibly loud as you know. When I turn down the whole output it doesnt make any sense at the beginning. I am trying to orchestrate it so it gets " wider" and " denser" wothout getting louder. The Mp3 on Soundclick is WAY over, if I recall that thing goes into the +3 range at the 5 minute mark. That means I have to tuen the output down to -6 in order to keep the peaks at -3.

Some of this is just me bieng sloppy: Its so dense at times that one cant hear clipping, but I really want to do this by the book.

Your are trying to get the final volumes at the mix stage, that really isn't your job. If the dynamic range is really too wide, the ME can fix that.

There is also a big difference between the volume that your ears percieve and the peaks of the transients. The two are almost not related. If it really is percussive transients that are at +3, that can be easily and (for the most part) transparently taken care of with a limiter. You will get the volume back, but you have to give the ME a clean mix.

 

[DavidK]

Clean mix? Does that mean no clipping anywhere?

I have been working on one of these all morning. Its gonna be fine, I just need to be a lil more meticulous.

that your ears percieve

This is a good point. I am learning ( a bit) about perception and reality. Some of this stuff over 0.0 is not much louder, I THINK it is just a distorted mess and I cant hear it because Its so dense. And I suck When I keep the loud stuff in that right range, it really doesnt sound that much different. I was thinking that "cheating" would give me a dynamics advantage and I dont think it is. I will leave that to the mastering and play by the rules. Thankx

 

[Farview]

Clean mix? Does that mean no clipping anywhere?

Yup, that's what it means

This is a good point. I am learning ( a bit) about perception and reality. Some of this stuff over 0.0 is not much louder, I THINK it is just a distorted mess and I cant hear it because Its so dense. And I suck When I keep the loud stuff in that right range, it really doesnt sound that much different. I was thinking that "cheating" would give me a dynamics advantage and I dont think it is. I will leave that to the mastering and play by the rules. Thankx

It probably isn't a distorted mess because only the transients are getting clipped. It isn't going to be as open or natural sounding, but you might not hear it as distortion.

If you hit a note on a piano and look at the waveform, you will see a large peak at the beginning of the wave, then you will see a long sustained wave that gradually gets smaller. The long sustained wave is what you are percieving as the volume of that note. The giant peak at the beginning is too short to be percieved as loud.

If you beat the peake back with a limiter, you can turn up the volume of the sustain without clipping the file. Thus making it louder. This is the ME's job, he can do it much more gracefully than just clipping the file. just turn the output of the DAW down until it doesn't clip. The ME will be able to bring the volume back up.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

As usual, Jay has explained it well.

Allow me to try to put a simple point on it from the other direction:

You have plenty of room between 0dBFS and the noise floor of you digital system. If you have to decrease the overall volume by 3, 6, or even 10dB to keep your peaks from clipping, that's OK, there is plenty of "floor room" there.

Then you can leave it to the ME to perform whatever top shelf limiting or compression to bring the volumes up to good listening levels without detrimental-sounding levels of clipping or limiting.

G.