Prelude continued...

[WhiteStrat]

Starting a new thread to continue this one. Here's the old thread in case you want to see what was said about this tune the first time.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=271457

There were lots of great suggestions; I actually did many of them! (Sorry Shawn--leads are still very wet; I wanted to keep some of 'em). Here's what's different between the two: re-tracked the bass guitar; re-tracked the opening lead solo; added strings/pads; made the opening/intro a bit darker, and tweaked the overall mix/eq etc... And last but not least, the most common suggestion seemed to be make the end longer. I didn't just want to repeat the passage again, so I broke it up with something new...

Here's the old one.

And here's the new one.

 

[eyema_believer]

Sounds good Mr Strat!!!

Yay!!

 

[antichef]

I like this one better -- the guitars have more punch to me (which means a lot of punch, since the last one was not lacking in that area)

It's got some of what I liked about Ingwie in the beginning.

[still listening....]

Awesome playing, as usual. I like the longer ending. Love the *bass sound* in the end -- how did you get that? (forgive me if this is covered in the first thread - I got behind)

 

[WhiteStrat]

I like this one better -- the guitars have more punch to me (which means a lot of punch, since the last one was not lacking in that area)

It's got some of what I liked about Ingwie in the beginning.

[still listening....]

Awesome playing, as usual. I like the longer ending. Love the *bass sound* in the end -- how did you get that? (forgive me if this is covered in the first thread - I got behind)

Thanks antichef! The bass is a Schecter Stilletto 5 string. The first mix is the bass right into the DI on my MPA Gold. For the second one I went through a bass pod just to get some cabinet emulation--no effect. As soon as I decided to do the bass breaks, I also decided I'd need a funkier sound, so I retracked.

 

[DavidK]

Sounds very good, lots of good ideas and playing here. Couple of ideas:

1. When the piano at the beginning goes super-fast, it doesnt sound real. You might consider a synth and making it more "effect-like".

2. Piano needs more variance throughout in terms of volume and velocity of notes. Also, try to randomize or "humanize" the piano by 5% if you have that feature.

In the orchestral parts without drums, orchestral percussion might be cool, especially timpani. The orchestral "interludes" still need something else, they dont quite fit with the other parts. The problem is "playability" and reality. The rock parts sound playable because indeed they are, and a human is playing geetar and bass etc. The interlude stuff sounds like quantized synths. Thats why I am thinking orchestral percussion might help since it will sound more realistic. Anything you can do to add a human element in those sections will bring life to it, maybe classical guitar.

If not that, maybe make the interludes real "synthy" instead of emulative.

Excellent work here WS. Lots of creativity and very interesting prog/classical rock stuff.

 

[WhiteStrat]

Sounds very good, lots of good ideas and playing here. Couple of ideas:

1. When the piano at the beginning goes super-fast, it doesnt sound real. You might consider a synth and making it more "effect-like".

2. Piano needs more variance throughout in terms of volume and velocity of notes. Also, try to randomize or "humanize" the piano by 5% if you have that feature.

In the orchestral parts without drums, orchestral percussion might be cool, especially timpani. The orchestral "interludes" still need something else, they dont quite fit with the other parts. The problem is "playability" and reality. The rock parts sound playable because indeed they are, and a human is playing geetar and bass etc. The interlude stuff sounds like quantized synths. Thats why I am thinking orchestral percussion might help since it will sound more realistic. Anything you can do to add a human element in those sections will bring life to it, maybe classical guitar.

If not that, maybe make the interludes real "synthy" instead of emulative.

Excellent work here WS. Lots of creativity and very interesting prog/classical rock stuff.

Thanks for the follow up! I'm sitting here working on it right now. I'm gonna do a stem mix of the rock instruments and just focus on the orchestral stuff. You've confirmed some ideas and given me some others. Thanks again.

 

[joeym]

Bob, somehow this version sounds darker and heavier...
Love it !!!

 

[WhiteStrat]

Bob, somehow this version sounds darker and heavier...
Love it !!!

Thanks Joe. Did you catch the funky addition in the heavy section at the end? You're the one who commented on all the different moods that were in this thing the first time around, so since I added on more, I thought I'd ask what you think of it.

 

[Greg_L]

Wow, what a song! Sounds pretty cool. Very nice arrangement and musical landscape stuff. Guitars sound awesome. Piano sounds kind of fake, but no big deal. Bass at athe end sounds kick ass. My only nit is with the kick. It's muddy and lacks the definition needed for that tight chugging with the guitars. Cut some low mids from it and boost some attack around 5k and see if that helps.

 

[Riffmaster]

The song was already great, now it's greater. The leads sound crisper and tighter to me. I like the end much better now. I have no nits, although I think DavidK had some viable suggestions. I'd frame this one. Outstanding vision and composition.

 

[joeym]

Thanks Joe. Did you catch the funky addition in the heavy section at the end? You're the one who commented on all the different moods that were in this thing the first time around, so since I added on more, I thought I'd ask what you think of it.

Like I said, Love it!! There are so many different emotions, for example that part around 4:30 with the cellos and strings which climaxes into the distorted guitars, pure genius, and then the way you underline those guitar riffs with the piano. For me this is art...

 

[WhiteStrat]

Wow, what a song! Sounds pretty cool. Very nice arrangement and musical landscape stuff. Guitars sound awesome. Piano sounds kind of fake, but no big deal. Bass at athe end sounds kick ass. My only nit is with the kick. It's muddy and lacks the definition needed for that tight chugging with the guitars. Cut some low mids from it and boost some attack around 5k and see if that helps.

Greg--thanks, man. I tried changing the fast piano passages to synths per DavidK's suggestion--and it didn't work for me. I'm too emotionally attached to the piano sound. I'm still futzing with it though...

And thanks for the input on the kick. That's very helpful and something I can easily deal with!

 

[true-eurt]

Greg--thanks, man. I tried changing the fast piano passages to synths per DavidK's suggestion--and it didn't work for me. I'm too emotionally attached to the piano sound. I'm still futzing with it though...

And thanks for the input on the kick. That's very helpful and something I can easily deal with!

Nor would I change the piano to synth...I just love piano. I love how fast it goes too...and I don't think it sounds fake at all...in fact...I'm torn between the original intro and new one...I mean, the slow intro is great and all...but it lacks the sudden start energy the song was first introduced with...

Bringing up the lead is excellent..it makes my heart flutter with that soaring feeling taken to the edge.


You have managed to harness and employ such raw energy....listening is like being on the edge of your seat during a suspense movie(with that action porn ending). Unpredictable... rock edginess that kicks ass, intertwined with a soaring axe solo drenched in classical vibes throughout the piece. A musical treat for the listener's ear!


There are some songs, that stand on their own merit of talent, energy and edginess and I would bet you a tortoise shell pick(if I had one...we can use Zaphods...),the first mix, would stand on it's own merit too..just because the song kicks ass...with very little tweaking done.


I rarely make such comments on a mix with just one listen...but I know that I know that I know...no matter how many times I listen, the song will feel as a wonderful wild stallion, running against the wind, his mane flying wildly, his eyes full of fire...midway losing gain, with the Bronc Busters close behind..then sudden bursts of energy speeds him on ahead.

That awesome bass part in the outro is friggin songwriting genius! Adding that bottom end jig took the song from awesome...to uniquely awesome!..especially the way you've created a *call out* between the axe and bass!!...and I couldn't have thought of a better ending...so perfect!

The bass sustain is still great too!!

Oh...did I mention, it kicks ass?


I will, however have me many many more listens to both mixes and come back to eat crow, if necessary....

 

[WhiteStrat]

True--don't listen too much! I'll be posting a third (and FINAL--I've got to put this to bed--it's consuming me) mix tonight or tomorrow... Minor tweaks, but some will be noticeable and not just obsessive fixes on my part.

 

[true-eurt]

True--don't listen too much! I'll be posting a third (and FINAL--I've got to put this to bed--it's consuming me) mix tonight or tomorrow... Minor tweaks, but some will be noticeable and not just obsessive fixes on my part.

Damn..I bet ya read this before I deleted it...this is my first time I deleted something....just to behave...I think...

 

[joeym]

and what's more, the more you listen to it, the more texture you discover (I listened to it over and over last night) . In my opinion, it's what makes a piece stand out. We may be the rockers, but you, Rami and DavidK are the artists

 

[WhiteStrat]

and what's more, the more you listen to it, the more texture you discover (I listened to it over and over last night) . In my opinion, it's what makes a piece stand out. We may be the rockers, but you, Rami and DavidK are the artists

And still I'm sitting here 1 minute after you posted that--still trying to get it "right." (I know it's not late where you are, but trust me--it is here. )

 

[joeym]

no, it's damn early here now and I could do with some more sleep.....fucking day job!

 

[WhiteStrat]

At the risk of beating a dead horse...here's the third and final (for now, anyway) mix of Prelude in Dm. Cleaned up and tweaked a lot of the midi parts, worked on the kick, the lead tones, and (GASP ) squished it up some, and made it a lot hotter. After the real world test of boombox, living room & couple cars--I think this is the best mix I'll get (without retracking anything that is). But please feel free to let me know if you hear something that makes you think otherwise.

Thanks for all your help!

Prelude in Dm (third and final)

 

[rayc]

Well done on the insert.
Funky, funky, funky but chic.
The stop at 6.07 could be wetter I just had an expectation when it was hanging that it might have a faint repeat to suggest the space or something.
The tweaking is freaking excellent.
Mmmmm, 6 1/2 mins of sweet guitaring.