Preamp suggestion for MXL 603s

[gypsyhick]

I'm hunting for a new preamp. I use a firebox but the pres do not have enough gain for my recent projects.

Right now, I'm recording a lot of solo acoustic guitar. Most is fingerpicking on a steel string Santa Cruz, but some are classical pieces on a nylon string.

I have a pair of MXL 603s and want to match them up to a suitable preamp that will run into the firebox but bypass the firebox pres.

I don't need extra coloring - the guitar sounds great as is - just good, clean analog gain.

$500 is the limit, but if $200 works I'm happy.

I've seen posts on DMP3, VTB-1, RNP, ect..., but got overwhelmed at the sheer number of posts. I figured I'd post my specific situation and see what everyone thinks.

Thanks,

 

[nuemes]

The MXL603's have a lot of hyped high freq. If you're willing to spend $500, spend that on better mics and a DMP3.

Otherwise I'd go with the RNP.

 

[dgatwood]

The MXL603's have a lot of hyped high freq. If you're willing to spend $500, spend that on better mics and a DMP3.

Agreed. My advice would be to buy a pair of Oktava MK-012s, sell the 603s, and use the money from that to buy a DMP3.

 

[Paj]

MF currently has DMP3 factory refurbs for $130.

Paj
8^)

 

[tdukex]

The MXL603's have a lot of hyped high freq. If you're willing to spend $500, spend that on better mics and a DMP3.

Otherwise I'd go with the RNP.

A lot of mics have a hyped high end, including the Neumann KM 184 and the AKG C 451b, yet a lot of professionals still use them on acoustic guitar with great results.

 

[tdukex]

Agreed. My advice would be to buy a pair of Oktava MK-012s, sell the 603s, and use the money from that to buy a DMP3.

I have both the 603s and the Mk-012. IMO they sound very similar through the DMP3 on my Webber OM and my Larrivee L-30.

I do agree that if he can afford better mics he should get them. But I would look at a pair of the AT4041 at 8thstreet for $440 - $450 and use them with the DMP3.

 

[nuemes]

A lot of mics have a hyped high end, including the Neumann KM 184 and the AKG C 451b, yet a lot of professionals still use them on acoustic guitar with great results.

Oh Christ. Perspective, people, perspective.

 

[tdukex]

Oh Christ. Perspective, people, perspective.

So you don't like the 603s on acoustic guitar. I do. I have used it along side an MK012 for years with both DMP3 and a Sebatron preamps. I'm not the only one who likes it either. Many do. Harvey, for example, was the first person on this Board to sing its praise, calling it a "winner" in his review. Not that his opinion automatically makes it good--just another perspective.

I have also read many posts in forums over the years by pros who despise the KM 184 and 451b in complete contrast to those pros who like them. Go figure. Seems everyone has a perspective.

 

[Daisy]

For nylon string, classical accoustic, you want the high end emphasis.

(For the steel string, probably not so much)

So yea ... consider the situation and the context. The guy's asking about mic pres. And for what he's doing, he'll be find with something cheap and clean with two channels. DMP3 or Symetrix 202/302 come to mind.

 

[WhiteStrat]

For nylon string, classical accoustic, you want the high end emphasis.

(For the steel string, probably not so much)

So yea ... consider the situation and the context. The guy's asking about mic pres. And for what he's doing, he'll be find with something cheap and clean with two channels. DMP3 or Symetrix 202/302 come to mind.

+1 on the Symetrix 202. I use two channels with a pair of SDCs for recording accoustic and love the results. (BTW--my SDCs do include 603's; I don't always use these, but they sound great through the Symetrix pres).

 

[WhiteStrat]

I did a mic shootout for someone a while ago--MXL 603 vs. NT5. And I used the Symetrix 202. So you can hear my guitar through your mic and a potential preamp purchase!

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=2946200&postcount=6

 

[Harvey Gerst]

The "high end emphasis" of an MXL 603 consists of a single 5 dB peak at around 7 KHz. Very easy to notch out with any parametric eq.

 

[nuemes]

The "high end emphasis" of an MXL 603 consists of a single 5 dB peak at around 7 KHz. Very easy to notch out with any parametric eq.

After notching you may have to deal with phase issues introduced by the EQ, esp. low cost digital EQ. 5 dB peak is not small potatoes.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

After notching you may have to deal with phase issues introduced by the EQ, esp. low cost digital EQ. 5 dB peak is not small potatoes.

I've never found it to be that big a problem in actual use, but if I want a slightly flatter sound, the Oktava MC-012 is similar to the 603, but doesn't have that 7 KHz peak. I own 7 of the 603's, and we use them quite regularly in both studios.

Here's a bluegrass group I recorded, using nothing but MXL603's on all the instruments (except for the bass*). The mandolin, banjo, guitar, and dobro were all recorded with the 603's:

Red Wing

*The upright bass was recorded with a Behringer ECM8000.

 

[gypsyhick]

Thanks for all the info everyone.

I'm going to go with the RNP and keep the 603s pair. Without actually hearing the different units, Here's my logic (please lay an opinion if you think it's faulty):

I already invested in a lower end preamp and am not entirely happy. Why do the same thing over again? I'm going to invest in the RNP. When I do acquire higher quality mics I won't be repurchasing yet another preamp.

I'm going to slightly alter my original topic since some folks are active here and ask another question.

When recording my guitar, I can't seem to tame a 150-ish boomy peak

I've tried a few mic placements:

x/y from 1 to 2 feet at 12th fret

Spaced pair (this is hard using the 3/1 ratio. Either the mics end up so close to the guitar or they are spaced way outside the guitar.)

Do you guys have any tips that aren't under the Mics 101 textbook?

 

[tdukex]

Sounds like you may have room issues. Bass traps and other treatment may be needed.

 

[Daisy]

(please lay an opinion if you think it's faulty):

I already invested in a lower end preamp and am not entirely happy.

I'm laying an opinion then, because I think your logic is faulty. Not because I don't think you should get an RNP.

But ... you say you "invested" in a lower end preamp and are not happy. How do you know it's the preamp you're not happy with? For guys in your situation, about 99% of the time, the preamp has very little to do with anything. More than likely, it's the guitar ... it's the way you're mic'ing it ... and it's the room, along with your experience level and expectations.

The mic pre plays a roll in the sense that it's always a good idea to use the best equipment you can -- whenever possible. But it's usually pretty far down on the list of what will make someone happy or not happy with their recorded tracks. Once you're relatively happy and satisfied using your current setup, only then are you going to be able to derive and real appreciation of what an upgrade may (or may not) bring to the table.

 

[MCI2424]

The "high end emphasis" of an MXL 603 consists of a single 5 dB peak at around 7 KHz. Very easy to notch out with any parametric eq.

See, that is why I hate cheap mics! Yours only has 1 peak, I have a few expensive mics that have 2 or more peaks!
You get what you pay for!

 

[Harvey Gerst]

See, that is why I hate cheap mics! Yours only has 1 peak, I have a few expensive mics that have 2 or more peaks!
You get what you pay for!

Hey, good peaks cost money!!

 

[nuemes]

For guys in your situation, about 99% of the time, the preamp has very little to do with anything. More than likely, it's the guitar ... it's the way you're mic'ing it ... and it's the room, along with your experience level and expectations.

This is good advise. Even with the highest end pre's and mics you'll run into trouble recording $2k+ acoustic guitars. I went through many acoustic guitars before finding one I was content recording, and I've yet to find a mic that suits it exactly as I'd like to hear.

At the same time, the more varied your gear and the better the quality gives you more opportunity to record the sound you're looking for.

As far as boominess goes it's all pretty logical: make sure your room is not adding to the low end in a negative way. Start with one mic on the guitar and find a position that's not boomy that sounds good. Then add another mic if needed and make sure it's not boomy either. I'd be more concerned about the boominess before worrying about phase. If you EQ use subtractive with a small Q, watching for phase.