Preamp Gain question - related to the VTB-1 and DMP3

K

kirkhere

New member
Can anyone who has experience with these two preamps give me an idea which might amplify an EV RE20 more effectively? This is for voice work only.

I used to have a Mackie 1202VLZ but needed to crank the trim to near-max to get sufficient signal. Even then I had to use the output gain on other gear to help some, and it was somewhat noisy.

The Mackie is out of the picture now (it was borrowed), my budget is around $150, and I don't have the option of auditioning gear where I live. Online reviews and this forum have steered me to the VTB-1 (spec'd at 72dB gain) and the DMP3 (spec'd at 66dB gain).

It comes down to: Which preamp will give me the most gain? and Should I go by specs alone on this? Better yet, has someone used both got an opinion or recommendation? I realize they must be close, given the generally-positive opinions on them, though differently "colored" some. Color is not an issue, and might not be something I could tell very clearly.

Thanks for your comments and experience.

James
 
Off the wall - First theing that went through my head...

I think that if you had to crank the gain on an RE-20 on the Mackie for voice work, there is probably something wrong with the Mackie. Or the mic. The RE-20 is a beastly (in a good way), robust microphone for voice work. You shouldn't have to add any more gain than normal to it to get a good level.

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com
 
Hi John,

Thanks for your reply.

I thought the same, that something *had* to be wrong here. I had both companies check out their part of the equation, and they each sent the units back after a week or so, claiming that nothing was wrong and they were fine.

I tried the other Mackie inputs. I borrowed an SM57 and got noticeably more signal. I didn't care for what it did to my voice quality, though. Far as I recall, the Mackie trim ran from 7:00 to 5:00 roughly, and for the RE20 I was around 4-4:30 it seemed. Way up.

Some knowledgeable folks taught me a lesson in using the RE20 more effectively, terming it a "two-finger" mic and telling me to stay very close when using it. That helped, but apparently wasn't the entire story.

My signal chain at the time was
RE20-->Mackie-->FMR RNC-->Speck ASC-->CardDeluxe

The CardDeluxe has no input gain, it simply records what you give it, faithfully. Both the RNC and the ASC have output gains, which I ultimately employed. Without them in the chain (or with them, bypassed), I felt I was recording a lot of electronics hiss when I finally got enough signal.

Thanks again, and I hope that either pre is the ultimate solution.

James
 
Kirkhere, there may be some VTB-1 demo models left at about $100 at www.pmiaudio.com (includes shipping).

The DMP3 is a "transparent" kind of mic pre, the VTB-1 is
darker in coloration.

The VTB-1 is quieter than the DMP3 when both are maxed out for gain. I have the direct ancestor of the RE20, the EV 666.

Chris

P.S. You may want to also try the low cut filter on the
VTB-1 and hear how it compares to "flat".
 
FWIW

I have an RE20 and had to send it to Electro Voice when the shop I bought it from couldn't fix a problem under warrantee.

Electro voice basicly went through the whole mic and fixed and cleaned it up.

Before it went back, for the very brief time it worked, it had a pretty low output.

I figured that would change but same (relatively) low output when I recieved it back from the EV.

Its not a problem on the kick drum but can be a little difficult for voice.

I usually have to put the pre at about 3/4 or higher to get a good level on a voice or guitar ...... fortunately not my first go-to for guitar.

Still like the sound of the mic though.

Dont have either of those pres but the pres in my M30 board have mucho gain and are quite clean, although not neccessarily transparent.

-mike
 
Massive, if you mean the low cut switch on the mic (as well as the one on the Mackie), I tried both rolled off and flat positions on each as I worked on it. The difference, though notable, was not the culprit.

chessparov, thanks for the lead. I will watch the site daily. Also, thank you for the comment on the sound of the two at high gain. --Insert dumb question here: could you, or would you, run into one side of the DMP3 and then double around and come through the other side to increase overall gain? Would it be a way to get an effective boost in gain without maxing noise, as long as the preamps themselves weren't maxed in either channel? Or would this idea only serve to make me sound like a real goofball desperately seeking a solution? ;-)

formerlyfzfile, thanks for your comments. Nice to know that someone else has thought the mic has a lower output (one of those "glad to hear it's not just me" situations!). I too like the sound of this mic.

James
 
Kirkhere, actually that's a very intelligent question. I've experimented doing that.

AFAIK you're better off just getting a mic pre that's quiet at/near full gain vs. two channels of partial gain for a better S/N ratio.

Chris
 
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who added to this thread, particularly chessparov for his hands-on knowledge, and that I've ordered the VTB-1.

Will be back with my thoughts when it's arrived!

kirkhere
 
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