Pre for ribbon mics?

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Windowman, you are a walking encyclopedia of misinformation please cease and desist. You are doing a terrible disservice to anyone without enough information to realize that you don't have a clue about recording and audio in general.

No model of 414 sounds anything like an RCA ribbon.

Ribbons are often used for micing everything from vocals to guitar cabinets, they certainly have many uses beyond recording 40's style big band music.

In Radio today both dynamics (chiefly the RE20 MD421 and the newer RE27) and condensers are used. Before NPR (Public Radio)started using Neumann U87's and some of the big commercial stations followed them, radio exclusively used dynamics and before that ribbon mics.

No amount of mic level signal will "blow" a micpreamp.

A mic generally needs to go first into a micpreamp then into a compressor not the other way around. With a hot condenser mic on a loud source you can sometimes cheat by plugging the mic directly into a line input, devices that are 600 ohm of course will do this better than something that has a 10k ohm or higher input impedance.

Ampex did not make consoles to my knowledge only the MX10, the MX35 and a very early mixer that was similar but mono having only four mic inputs and just volume controls for each channel.
 
Windowman,maybe the hundreds of thousands of fans have it wrong and we should be listening to Windowman play the blues instead of BB.Myself I think that BB says more in one note than you say with all the words in your post.Music is about communication not how many chords you play or how fast you are.Fretboard pyrotechnics are simply hand excersizes if they go nowhere and say nothing.It's like that annoying little airhead that might be cute but keeps talking on and on without really saying a freaking thing just to hear herself talk.On the other hand one note from BB and I want to hear what he has to say....
 
"No amount of mic level signal will "blow" a micpreamp."

Try routing a phantom powered mic through a patch bay and then into a mic pre and then come back and tell me that. Hot patching will will blow a mic pre quite easily among other things. But I've already discussed this in another thread.

"No model of 414 sounds anything like an RCA ribbon."

The original C414 does. The newer models have a lot more high end.

I only know of one good use for a Ribbon mic and that's for recording acoustic guitar and banjo. Oddly enough that's also what the C414 is noted for.

"A mic generally needs to go first into a micpreamp then into a compressor not the other way around."

I've already talked about this. We used to go through a phantom power box (not a direct box) and then into the compressor and then the board. It was just silly not to.

"Windowman,maybe the hundreds of thousands of fans have it wrong"

Hundreds of thousands buy the Enquirer, watch soap box operas, have tripped on LSD, Peyote root or Mandrake root, have bought albums by Cher, Madonna, Elton John, and hundreds of thousands joined people like Hitler. That's not an argument that ever impresses. However, I'm glad you found some music you like. It doesn't matter to me.
 
Windowman, a condenser mic simply not going to sound like a ribbon, even tube mics which are generally agreed upon to be smoother sounding than FET mics don't sound like a ribbon. I take it that what you are refering to is a 414 with the CK12 capsule which is mellower than the later icepick in your ear 414's. It may be smooth for a FET mic but a ribbon is just a whole different deal.

Oddly enough I have never heard of a mic that only sounds good on acoustic guitar and banjo. The 414 was the replacement for the C12, both of these mics are known for being used on everything from vocals to drum overheads to almost anything else that makes a sound.

I am following you about running a hot condenser into a line input, as I said it can be done but the purpose of it is to avoid overloading (distortion) the micpreamp not it's destruction. Another simple way to avoid distortion of the micpreamp is to simply use a pad either on the mic, an in line plug in unit, or the console trim.

I'm glad to see that you ar starting to see the light about dynamic mics being used in radio... well the evidence there is overwhelming. Now if you can only show some respect for a wider range of musicians than the ones you approve of, stop calling people faggots and consider adding to your knowledge about recording we might be getting somewhere.
 
"Oddly enough I have never heard of a mic that only sounds good on acoustic guitar and banjo."

"Only"--Me neither. But all mics are considered best at some things and there's not a banjo player alive that wouldn't love to be recorded with a C414. There was a time when most guitar players would have said that too.

I'm tired of talking about destroying a mic pre with a hot signal. I only pointed out that it can very easily be done and used to happen quite often, thus the reason so many of the old consoles had fuses inline with the mic pre's I think, although those fuses wouldn't have kicked in until after the pre. But the point of them was to protect the strips after "too" hot a signal managed to get passed them.

I don't know about the RE 20 being used in radio as much as you say. I know this is EV's claim but I doubt that claim very much. There just wouldn't be any point to them. How the hell can sitting in suspension above a desk possibly be rough on a mic? If there's nothing to hurt them then why not use condensers? It just doesn't make a lick of sense. On the street interviews and such, yeah I can see that, but not hovering over a desk. But if you think they're so popular in radio booths that's fine. Believe it if you want.

What's actually come up in this thread that interests me much more is the subject of B. B. King and other deadbeats like him that I'm supposed to respect? Exactly why would I respect someone like that? Because he's worked so hard at mastering every facet of his abilities? If a guy has been playing guitar for more than 6 years he should be able to play anything from fingerstyle to double-picked chromatic scales to baroque counterpoint and all points in between. When he actually learns to play then I'll think about giving him my hard earned cash for a CD or concert ticket. I have absolutely no interest in hearing him play the same damn trill followed by the same damn whole tone bend toward the end of every phrase. If I'm going to do that then I might as well start watching Jerry Springer and reading Aldous Huxley.

And you might mention something about that name calling thing to our wonderful moderator when he gets home from school.
 
Just some random thoughts here.

1. A too hot of a signal from a condensor is not going to blow up a mic amp. Abusing the input of the pre by IMPROPERLY hot patching *will*.

2. Hot patching done properly is perfectly safe.

3. Desks do not have fuses in line with mic amps to protect them from overload.

4. Condensors do not sound like ribbons. If they do, you need to get your hearing checked.

5. Compressors expect to see a line level signal, not a mic level signal. There are some mics that can put out almost a line level, that can certianly be plugged straight into a compressor, but this is *not* common practise.

6. The RE-20, among other dynamics, are used in broadcast. You admitted that you dont do radio work. End of story. HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU KNOW? Do you get all your information from TV?

7. I can hear the difference between 16 bit and 24 bit.

8. windowman sounds like he's 75.

9. What the hell does windowman listen to? Does he even like music?

10. Has windowman ever been in a real studio?
 
Windowman's real name and address has already been posted. Where's yours fruit?

You can hear the difference between 24 and 16 bit...right. No one else ever has when put to the test. That's enough for me to ignor the rest of your idiotic post right there. Just how many more names do you have an this board eh?
 
windowman said:
Windowman's real name and address has already been posted. Where's yours fruit?
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with the fact you have no fucking idea what your talking about? Moron. Please go away.



windowman said:
You can hear the difference between 24 and 16 bit...right. No one else ever has when put to the test. That's enough for me to ignor the rest of your idiotic post right there. Just how many more names do you have an this board eh?
Click to expand...

I only have one name.

And yes, I *can* hear the difference. I'm not suprised you cant hear it, afterall, you think a 414 sounds like a ribbon.

Have fun with your delusions.
 
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I really don't want to heat up the discussion, but the only two mics that really have impressed me so far on trumpet are the 414b-uls and a beyer m260. They sound very similar on this special instrument. Of course it is a much more expensive aventure to find a preamp that delivers enough clean gain for the m260 than the 414.
BTW the manley Vox Box has the comp patched in before the pre.
just my 2 cents
Harald
 
I don't know if the 414's you guys are using are broken or what but to my ears and I think most people would agree with me that the 414BULS sounds exactly like what it is, a very expensive large diaphram electret microphone.

The 414 has a brightness and a bit of a bite that some people like on some sources while others hate it. The 414BULS is not smooth or mellow sounding even for a condenser mic if you are comparing it to other high end microphones. I continue to be amazed by anyone making the claim that this mic sounds like a ribbon.

On another note so to speak, a trumpet is a pretty loud source and if someone is playing one within a couple of feet of a Beyer 260 you shouldn't have any need for a high gain preamp.
 
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