Pre-Amps Do I need one???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Altruist
  • Start date Start date
A

Altruist

New member
Okay I am an absolute rookie here...I have an alright mic set-up but the built in pre-amp of my behringer mixer seems to me to be useless...Atleast I hear no difference when its on or off...

Now I am using my stuff for hiphop music and occasionally my girlfriend will sing on it...The question is...Do I NEED a pre-amp to up my vocal quality...Same goes with a compressor...I have eyed some Roland products but don't want to just go out and buy something that I may have no use for...Please help this rook out...
 
Well, firstly, most Behringer mixers does not have the possibility to turn on or off the preamp. Are you sure you are not talking about the phantom power (which powers the mic, not the preamp)?

But, yes, you do need a preamp, because the signal from a microphone is too weak. Try plugging in the microphone in a line input and you'll notice the difference. If you don't, then your preamps busted.

But the preamps in the Behringer mixer will do nicely as a start. You'll soon find yourself wanting to buy not only separate preamps, but a whole new mixer, and tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment, but we'll save that for another day.
 
Well I have that eurorack I think its called...Its has a little black button and next to it is says pre i believe but I would have to be at home to be sure...I use XLR connectors right now so I will do the little test that you mention...Would a better bet be to save and buy say a Mackie mixer(i hear they have good pre amps built in) or should I go the route of a seperate pre and then upgrade the mixer later...Cause I have a bit of coin now which is why I am interested in some people opinions...And I am trying to put together an album so the best quality vocals would be a plus for the end product...I would rather not take it to a pro studio and try and learn and do it myself....PEace
 
The black button near the pre is the low-cut switch. On mine it cuts freqs below 75hz. If, ferinstance, your mic doesn't have a freq response that goes that low, you won't hear a difference. :) It can be subtle.

The little black knob near the black button controls the preamp gain. Yeah, noone's socks will be knocked off by a Behringer preamp, but as Regebro said, it will work fine to start with.
 
Okay...Goodstuff...

So my question should really be if I have a little bit of cash where would it be best spent for the recording of decent vocals...Thanks again for the replys...
 
probably a good condenser or good mic preamp. What type of mic are you using? Are you doing male vocals?
 
You're welcome!

What to upgrade first for good vox all depends on how you define "a little bit of cash" and how you define "decent" :)

You said your mics were OK... what mics ya got? If your mics rock, then you can look at getting a better preamp. Your choices are defined by how much cash you have.

What are you recording with? If it's a PC, you might look into a better soundcard, if yours is a cheap one. If it's a cassette four- or eight-track, you might look into computer recording. ;)

So what gear do you have? Then we can take better shots at figuring out what you might upgrade.
 
The pre's contained in most Beh mixers contain a considerable amount of noise. If you are looking for a decent pre at a decent price (w/o breaking the bank) check out the ART TP @ $169.00. It's inexpensive pre that uses the 12AX7 tube for "so-called" signal warmth even though its manufactured with sold-state components. It features adjustable levelling for gits, vocs. keys and the like.
 
uh oh Q is bashing the Behringers again. Here come the Behringer supporters. Hopefully they won't notice
 
If you think your vocal sound sucks, and it's not because you can't sing, then maybe a better mic and preamp will help. A nice condenser mic does a lot.

Unless you think your vocal sound cut need a bit of high-frequency cut, don't buy the ART Tube MP. It's a pain to work with, they don't have any quality control when they build them, and the famous "tube warmth" is just a cut in the higher frequencies.

Now, a HF cut might be correct for your voice, but I wouldn't bet on it. Better to use the filters on the mixer in that case.
 
Altruist-

If I may be so blunt it doesn't sound like you really know what your doing with the equipment you have and buying more at this point would be a shot in the dark. I don't mean to offend you we all start somehere. Work with what you have until you actually find yourself limited and need to expand your setup.

You haven't said what mic or soundcard you are using and those would be good 'foundations' to build on.
 
keilson said:
uh oh Q is bashing the Behringers again. Here come the Behringer supporters. Hopefully they won't notice

I'm not bashing Beh again, just simply commenting on the performance of their line of Euro-WackMixer pre's!
 
An ART pre through a Behringer mixer....now theres a setup we can all agree on! :)
RD
 
Altruist - It all starts with the mic, and a pristine preamp fed by a crappy mic is gonna give you pristinely crappy sound. A decent mic through your Behringer pre on the other hand will sound decent. A good quality large diaphram condensor mic will set you back about the same amount of money as a good quality preamp, but will probably give you way more improvement in your sound. I say probably because you haven't mentioned what mic you're using, which often means it's not worth mentioning. Everyone here truely want's to help you out on the road to your big CD release, but you have to tip your hand before they can tell you what cards you need.
Regards, RD
 
Wow!!!

I am starting to get comfy with my setup but yes I know I got a long ways to go into gaining knowledge about this stuff...Very good point about not throwing more stuff in the mix that I have no idea how to use...I will get my specs and let ya know...I believe my mic is an Apex (don't know the number)...I use it for rap...And occasionally my girlfriend sings on it...

My soundcard is an audiophile 24/96

Behringer EuroRack Mixer 4 mic channels, 4 line channels

Cubase and Wavelab are the applications I use on my comp...Sometimes CoolEdit...

My Stereo is shit tho...I think I will replace that first and formost...

Thank you all...You people are all really helpful...This board kicks ass....:)
 
Altruist - Ok, now the picture is clear! You've got a very good soundcard and very good software, but the front end and back end suck. You said you've got a little money to spend......if you shop wisely you can fix this without it hurting too much.
Apex makes a dynamic mic, the kind you might hold in your hand while singing on stage, and some condensor mics that are much thicker, and you sing ito the side of it (side address) rather than into the end. If you have one of the condensors then you need to make sure you're singing into the correct side of it. It's not very obvious which side is the correct side, so this is an easy mistake, and will give you a thin sound. If you hve the dynamic mic then you might want to consider upgrading to a decent condensor mic. You'll find the difference to be huge, and suddenly every little sound, like just rubbing your fingers and thumb together, will sound amazingly clear and present. If you have, or if you get a condensor mic, get a pop filter to put in front of it. Without it you either have to reduce the preamp gain too low, or move too far away from the mic, giving you a thin sound, or every plosive (p's, b's) will jump out of the mix annoyingly. This will especially be true if you want to use the proximity effect of the mic to get a fat sound on your vocal. Proximity effect is a charachteristic of cardiod mic capsules where, as you get closer to the mic, the bass frequencies become more prominent.
Now let's skip to the back end, then we'll come back to the front end. Trying to monitor on a home stereo, even a good one, is a bad idea. You really should get yourself either a power amp and monitors, or get some active monitors. Active monitors have built in power amps, and might be the more cost effective solution.
Home stereo's all sound different, and are nowhere near flat. If you mix to one, your mix will sound like crap on the next one. You really need to hear the truth about what you're doing, and for that you need proper monitors.
Now, about compressors. Yes, you will almost certainly be happier with you vocals if you use some compression on them. But not neccessarily by buying a compressor and putting it after the preamp. Most engineers prefer to keep the original dynamics intact until mixdown, and then use software compressors to do the job. That way your not stuck with the compression you used while tracking. However, if you find that you can't get a good fat signal into the converters without going over Odb here and there and ruining the take, then a hardware compressor before the soundcard will fix things.
Ok, back to the preamp. I'm discussing this in what I think is the order of importance. If, or once you have a decent large diaphram condensor mic and pop filter in place, and proper monitors, then it's time to consider the preamp upgrade. Till then, the behringer will do the job ok. Yes, the Mackie pre's are much better, or there are several choices for standalone pre's that will give you a noticeable improvement over the behringer. Much has been discussed on the subject, and those opinions, plus your wallet, will guide you.
BTW, some DX or VST plugins will give you some nice compressors and reverbs to work with which will put the final touches on your vox.
Ok, there's my take on your situation, for what it's worth. Hope it helps with your quest.
Peace, RD
 
Alright...I have a condensor mic, stand and pop filter already so thats taken care of...

Monitors and a new stereo equipement seem like what I should invest in right now...

Hey thanks for the info...
 
Back
Top