Power Amp wattage question...

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Simmons

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I saw this power amp in an audio shop today for about $200 (170 Euros)...anyone know anything this unit.

http://www.limitelectronics.co.uk/product_detail.asp?id=33

If I buy a power amp with 100w per channel (like the one above) and monitors that are rated at, say 70watts(like Yorkville YSM 1 passive) ....will I damage the speakers by using them with a 100w amp? What's the "wattage connection" between power amp and reference monitor....should they match?
 
That website is not very forthcoming on the amp specs. Each channel is rated 100W into 8ohms or 180W into 4ohm load, but they don't say whether the power is peak, RMS or "program" (whatever that is), whereas the Yorkvilles are rated at 70W "program" power at 6ohms.
You need to know the RMS power rating of each component at a given load impedance - then you can compare.

I personally would get speakers rated 10-20% higher than the amp to give a little headroom. Otherwise just don't crank the amp up all the way (but you don't know just how far you can go till you blow the speaker :))
 
I like amp headroom - Clean & clear. a 100 watt amp with 70 watt speakers is fine.

DO be careful not to blow your speakers - However, don't "starve" your amp, either. Use the thing once in a while.

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com
 
A lot of sound engineers use double the amplifier power of the speakers i.e.

100 watts speaker = 200 watts amplifier

It is clipping an amplifier that kills speakers not too much power.

Also a pair of educated ears go a log way.
 
wilkee said:

It is clipping an amplifier that kills speakers not too much power.
Sounds like I need some education here. I realize that there is less distortion in most amplifiers the lower the power they are run at, and that at their highest power output there may be clipping and that a square wave with all its harmonics is hard on a speaker. All this is in favor of running a high wattage amp at lower power.
But I don't understand when you say that too much power won't blow a speaker, either by heating and shorting through the voice coil, or overdriving the excursion.
 
Thanks aus, that's a really infomative and well done site. Very good on the clipping and speaker cooling points.
It still didn't clear up the 200W amp to 100W speaker situation for me, though.

I guess the optimal situation would be the 200W amp - measure the power as gain is increased to 100W, drill a hole and put in a detente screw so the gain can't be increased beyound this point (by some asshole who is visiting and cranks it up while your back is turned.) Couple this to the 100W speakers, and you've got a hopefully clean low distortion signal to the max power the speakers are rated to handle.
 
I would have no problem at all using a 500 watt amp with a pair of NS-10s (which are rated at 50 watts or so)......

WHY? You ears are going to pop long before you send enough power to a cone that makes it fly across the room.

You're far more likely to damage speakers by using an underpowered amp than a high-powered one simply because it is generally amp-distortion that kills speaker drivers (especially tweeters) more than any other reason.

It's very easy to drive an underpowered amp into clipping, which creates a lovely swuared wave that monitors tend not to like very much.

The guideline? (IMO)
- Clean high-power amp ($$$) with low-rated speakers: GOOD
- Clean low-power amp ($$ high-current version but without high power output) with low-rated speakers: ALSO GOOD
- Cheap high-power amp (-$) with low-rated speakers: NOT SO GOOD
(cheap amps boasting high-power tend to be junk and distort easily, causing problems)
- Cheap low power-amp (-$$) with low-rated speakers: FOGEDABOWDIT

YMMV
 
Blue Bear.....

high-current version but without high power output

...don't really follow that. How can you tell (in the specs) if it's high-current. And what level of output are you talking about when you say "without high power output"??

In your post above, what would you consider high and low power output? Maybe specific examples would help me understand.
 
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Years ago, there were some audio amps (for ex. Harmon Kardon) that didn't have high-ouput ratings (ie 25-50 watts), but had high-current capability, meaning it was a VERY clean 25-50 watts compared to a "grade-B" 25-50watt amp.
 
crazydoc said:

But I don't understand when you say that too much power won't blow a speaker, either by heating and shorting through the voice coil, or overdriving the excursion.

That is why I said an educated pair of ears would help as well.

Most well designed speakers will sound awfull due to compression effects or you will get gross distortion caused by voice coil displacement problems well before actual damage is caused.
 
Many people have their understanding of amps and speakers all backwards. The way it really happens is that the speaker puts a load on the amp. When you think of matching up speaker and amp, you can use the “trailer and car engine” scenario. Picture this… If you have a trailer loaded down with heavy cargo and try to pull it up a mountain with a car, you can easily see how the trailer makes the engine work harder than normal. The same thing happens with an amp. The speaker, (or load) makes the amp, (or engine) do the work. This load in speakers is measured in ohms. Each speaker has an ohm rating that never changes. The lower the ohm number, the greater the load. Thus a 16 ohm speaker doesn’t require much work out of the amp. On the other hand, a 4 or 2 ohm speaker really makes the amp work hard. If you pair two 16 ohm speakers together in parallel they will double the load to 8 ohms. Two 8’s would make 4 and so on. Obviously adding more speakers will increase the load just as adding more trailers to the car would increase its load.

Wattage can almost be thought of as horsepower. Just like the car engine, the greater the wattage rating of the amp the more power it has. When an amp is not under much load, it does not use very much of its wattage. If the amps volume is at 10% then the wattage output is never greater than 10%. The only way to bring an amp to full wattage is to have its volume set at 100% and to have its input signal cranked up to 100% also. If you lower the input signal to 50% then the wattage will drop proportionally even though the output volume is still at 100%.

Speakers have a wattage rating too but they rarely, if ever, see that much. It means that if you exceed their rated wattage for any length of time they would probably get too hot and burn out. They can take high spikes in wattage for short periods of time because it takes a little time for the heat to build up. Most modern speakers have some sort of cooling system built in. An extreme spike in wattage, (say a snare hit), may only last for a fraction of a second. A few now and then won’t hurt most speakers because they can cool themselves and recover from the spike. The amount they can handle safely is referred to as their “peak rating.” If the spikes in high wattage become more frequent they can begin to build up more heat than the speaker can recover from. The safe level rating of frequent peaks is called “program rating.” Some engineers arrive at the safe program level mathematically. They use a formula that finds “root-mean-square” or RMS. It pretty much just means an average number of peaks mixed with an average number of valleys in the signal, blah, blah, blah. The program or RMS is the rating that you should be concerned with and stay within. Of course the only way to really know for sure is to put a wattage meter between the amp and speaker. Most people don’t use wattage meters. Instead they just don’t ever run their amp inputs at full power. An easy way to judge where the danger zone begins is the point at which the output signal begins to distort or sound fuzzy, crackled, or unnatural.

As long as you keep the volume under control, it is perfectly safe to have an amp that is rated much higher than the speaker. In fact, it is recommended. Just as an engine with lots of horsepower is good for pulling trailers up hill, so too is lots of wattage. Many engineers use amps rated at double or even triple the rating of their speakers.

Hope this helps. Sorry for writing a book here but hey, learning is good.
Gordon
 
I drive my JBL E110s with a PLX 3002 which puts out 900 watts per channel into 4 ohms. The JBL are rated at 75 watts each. No problem at all, because I don't over drive the JBLs. The extra capability provides head room. Overkill, in my case.

The other channel drivers a pair of 15" subwoofers that eat the full 900 watts and ask for more. Note: this is a stage performance bass rig, not a control room environment.

In the control room, you are never going to risk damaging speakers by using a high powered amp. An inefficient driver will produce 85 SPL at 1 meter, from 1 watt input power. For near-fields, this is the perfect mixing SPL value, as the ear response is flat according to the Fletcher-Munson curve. Levels above 85 SPL will tire your ears and/or damage them with sufficient exposure.

And this is from 1 watt input power. If the speakers are rated at 25 watts, you have miles of headroom.
 
homerecor said:

As long as you keep the volume under control, it is perfectly safe to have an amp that is rated much higher than the speaker.

I guess this is the crux for me. I used to have my vintage University Acoustic Batons, rated at 30W, driven by a Sansewer 100W/channel amp. I came home one day to find one blown by an unnamed family member who had cranked the volume. Of course, this was just a home "hi-fi" system.

I guess in a studio environment where you can control access to the equipment, it's not a problem. I don't have that luxury.
 
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