power amp and clipping?

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rockabilly1955

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I just got a 2 channel power amp that is 100 watts rms to each channel and I am connecting 2 12 inch pa speakers that handle 500 watts peak. When I turn the amp around 3/4 of full volume I notice that the clip indicator lights on the amp start to light up. Is that pretty common? How much clipping should an amp have if any? I did notice it would clip more on bass heavy songs.
 
bass heavy songs are gonna require more energy so it is normal for them to clip an amp sooner.
Also, 100 watts isn't very much actually so in a PA type situation, if that's what you're using it for, it'd clip pretty easily.
Also, even though the amp may not be turned up all the way, you can still drive it into clipping if the source is hot enough.
As for how much is normal ..... depends on how sensetive they've set the clip indicator. In general I'd be unworried about the clip light flashing briefly even if it does it frequently. But if you light that thing up for any period of time then you're possibly clipping it enough to fry a tweeter.
 
Good info Lt Bob. We actually gonna be using it for our garage practices but we were testing it out by hooking up an mp3 player to the mixer. The lights would light up for less than a second at around every strong beat. They definitely weren't staying lit though. We were using a powered mixer that was weaker and didn't have clip meters before this so I wasn't too sure.
 
100 watts really isn't a lot at all...

better for a loudspeaker type set up when there wasn't a band thrashing around
 
Eeesh... yeah, be careful. Slight flashes from time to time are okay... but you don't want a lot of them as you are going to get some big ass bass transients through and burn up a coil. (Personally, I strive to never clip ever) Also, just to be 100 certain, are we sure we are talking about clipping the power amp and not an input? Just making sure as they are two different things. Both are bad, but different.
 
Its just for vocals actually. Guitars and bass use their own amps not micd to the pa. We might DI the upright bass to the mixer though but just to pick up the slap and add a bit of delay. The bass would be turned all the way down because the bass amp would be handling the lows. The clipping might have been because the mp3 player volume was probably high itself. But I just turned the power amp volume down just a tad and the clipping lights didn't flash. I guess I just have to find the sweet spot.
 
Ok, so it is indeed a power amp, not a powered mixer... usually you want to run a power amp wide open... set that dude to 0 and go. You aren't adjusting the volume... you are padding the input. Run the power amp wide open and back down the output of your mixer instead for maximum benefit. You are confusing the hell out of me as you say you are running an mp3 player into it, but you call it a power amp and those two don't mix in my head. Just to absolutely 100% certain I am not talking out my ass, can you tell me what make and model amp this is and what the full signal chain is?
 
Sorry for the confusion. It is a cheap gemsound xps 1200 power amp (sounds pretty good actually and didn't heat up one bit after about an hour of continuous play) and a Yamaha mg8 mixer. I connected an mp3 player to the CD input on the mixer just to sound check the amp and speakers. So the amp level itself should be maxed out to 0 and then I should control the volume levels from the mixer?
 
no confusion ..... you did mention a mixer in your previous post.

In general yes, you would turn the power amp wide open and control the volume from the mixer. Usually the only time you'd turn down a power amp is if it's so powerdul that the mixer had to be turned down almost all the way to keep from being too loud.
But it's not really critical ...... no real problems from padding the input so I wouldn't worry about that too much.
But the easiest thing to do is run it all the way and then you don't have to fool with the power amp at all .... just the mixer.
 
Thanks for clarifying Lt. Bob. So if I leave the amp wide open would it heat up faster or does that still depend on the mixer volume level of the inputs?
 
Thanks for clarifying Lt. Bob. So if I leave the amp wide open would it heat up faster or does that still depend on the mixer volume level of the inputs?
No it wouldn't heat up faster.
The heating up of the amp is primarily from the amount of wattage it tries to put out. So whether you have the mixer up high and the input of the amp low .... or if you have the amp input all the way up and the mixer down low ...... if the amp is putting out 100 watts in either case ...... then from the amps' perspective it makes absolutely no difference. It has to dissipate the heat given off by producing 100 watts.
 
The actual amplifier is in an "amp" is a static gain device. The gain of the amp remains constant. The gain knob doesn't increase the output of the amplifier, it attenuates the input to the amplifier circuitry. It's really just a variable attenuator... Run the amp full... no worries, and adjust your output from the desk until the clip light stays off... (or illuminates briefly on high peaks)...
 
Thanks guys. Totally answered my questions (and concerns)!
 
i'm wondering if i should let this go or not... you see alot of what's been suggested to you are half trueths at best.... if your smart you'll try to go with absolutely no clipping at all... although somewhat misunderstood it is the clipping that blows your speakers... as to running the amp up full... in your case it probly wont matter as frankly your way underpowered.... but if you have to make the descision whether to turn down the amp or the mixer... in all but the rarest cases you turn down the amp.... the reason being that all of these things have what we call a noise floor... and it's better to run the mixer up so your not amplifing it's noise floor and then padding the amps input.... as to clip indicators... they very rarely actually test the output of the amp... usually they are in the frontend of the amp and merely estimate based on the input after the pad and first opamp stage.... if this system isn't doing the job for you as is the first thing i would suggest is dont worry about running in stereo (most venues dont really allow for any benifit of stereo) and see if you can bi-amp those speakers... this would mean adding an electronic (also called active) crossover so that one channel would then drive the 12's and the other would drive the horns.... make sense???? good luck...
 
Yes everything that you've said about mixers needing to be in a certain gain setting for best sound and least noise is absolutely true and also, bi-amping is overall the best way to run a PA although not the easiest. I use a Mackie 808 for live gigs with a Crown for monitors. Bi-amping isn't really an option with that unit without modding it so although I originally planned to do the mod, the amp works fine as is and I haven't felt the need.
But none of that really addresses the questions he asked in his original post and besides, if you start talking about bi-amping, now you're basically talking about replacing the system. Bi-amping probably doesn't make sense with the type of speakers he's using. Further, his main concern hasn't been sound or getting it loud enough or any of that. All he was wondering is whether the clipping light is a bad thing and the fact is, brief flashes of a clipping light rarely mean anything to worry about since, as you said, the clipping lights are just a general guide and don't neccessarily mean the amp is really clipping. As for blowing speakers ...... the main thing that'll get damaged is a tweeter ..... it's pretty rare to fry a woofer unless you get into hard full time clipping which isn't what he's described. In an ideal world you'd never clip at all but that's rarely the case for people who don't have unlimited budgets for lots of power. I've had maybe 50 different PA's altogether in my life and I've always run them like I've described ...... letting peak indicators flash briefly (as it says is ok to do in virtually every manual out there) or letting peak meters peg occassionally and in 40 years I've never blown a single speaker with the exception of one small horn in a monitor that I used for a bass bottom (understandable) and two Altec 808's (801's?) back in the day and they were known to be very fragile diaphragms.
And I've been in some bands that played extremely loud and we still didn't blow anything
 
i'm wondering if i should let this go or not... you see alot of what's been suggested to you are half trueths at best.... if your smart you'll try to go with absolutely no clipping at all... although somewhat misunderstood it is the clipping that blows your speakers... as to running the amp up full... in your case it probly wont matter as frankly your way underpowered.... but if you have to make the descision whether to turn down the amp or the mixer... in all but the rarest cases you turn down the amp.... the reason being that all of these things have what we call a noise floor... and it's better to run the mixer up so your not amplifing it's noise floor and then padding the amps input.... as to clip indicators... they very rarely actually test the output of the amp... usually they are in the frontend of the amp and merely estimate based on the input after the pad and first opamp stage.... if this system isn't doing the job for you as is the first thing i would suggest is dont worry about running in stereo (most venues dont really allow for any benifit of stereo) and see if you can bi-amp those speakers... this would mean adding an electronic (also called active) crossover so that one channel would then drive the 12's and the other would drive the horns.... make sense???? good luck...

ok....when i ran the amp "volume" knob at about 3/4 of max, it had pretty much no hiss at all. Very silent! Im happy about that. It does have a limiter function, so i am thinking now that the clip light started blinking because a particular song was louder than the 3/4 level which i believe is marked around -15 on the knob. The volume knob on the amp goes from -60 to 0 being maxed out.
 
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