"Popular Music Sound"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael Jones
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Hey Low, I hear you. Spoon is cool but I think if you listen to any of the nu-metal bands like system of a down, sevendust, or incubus one thing you definitely hear is a band playing intruments and DRUMS prominently featured in every square inch of the mix. Much more so than indie stuff out there. I think the drums as recorded today are clearer, bigger, and brighter than theyve ever been in rock even if 90% of the music is derivative, corporate by the numbers shit.
 
Thanks HeyLow, I thought I was going crazy for a moment when no one knew what I was talking about. :(
 
Mike, I know exactly what you're talking about. It's that scooped out, hyped hi end and over boosted bass. No sir...don't like it...not at all.
 
Call me crazy but I kind of like it, so.......how do you achieve it? There must be more to it than just scooping the mids and boosting the highs!? And is it only used on vocals?
 
oh JuSum, JuSum, JuSum.....

Must disagree here my man.

Those bands feature drums prominently, yes, if you call them that. I don't know what indie stuff you refer to but compare the drums from the bands I listed to the bands you listed and then go straight to your neighborhood drummers house or music store and play some drums. Two different sounds there. I'm not meaning to say better or worse or who's music is better or who plays better...I just want to hear drums sound like drums.

My point was....the drums heard on nu metal and most modern stuff just don't sound like real drums. Some may LIKE that sound....I just don't.:) There is apoint when enough is too much. When are they TOO big and bright? I hate when one can hear the kick drum at the same volume as the vocals....it's just too much. High hats ripping heads off walls og guitars sounding like much with no definition. It's like the mastering thing....louder, bigger, louder, bigger, louder, bigger. There has to be a ceiling!

I hope this isn't coming off like I'm trying to get in your shit, I just wanted to clarify my position. Just an opinion....I mean, I have no hit records and POD does so I know where my opinion is placed:p
 
Hey Low,

I agree with you. I think POD's drum sound sucks. I think they suck. I cant recall a group with less talent (wait, blink182??!!!) Their snare sound is almost reminiscent of the bad, undefined big reverbed snares of the late 80s but I think nu metal producers and engineers generally excel at getting big sounds out of guitars and drums while still maintaining alot of definition. Listen to deftones drums on white pony. I cant recall the last time I heard such silky, liquidy cymbals or such a perfect snare balanced bet the tonal thwack and sense of depth. Alien ant farm also has very nice tonal mostly natural sounding drums. But when you go back and listen to "cold as ice" or "jukebox hero" by foreigner (circa 1981?) you hear very dry and compressed drums. Those are the sounds you hear when you sit down at the set in a well made drum room (but with much tighter tunings now). I dig that sound and Im sure itll make a comeback in a couple of years. You hear every detail of the drums on foreigner. This stuff is cyclical. The good stuff always comes back around.
As far as nu metal though check out system of a down. I think thats the best mixed rock record to come out in a while. Its dry, up front, compressed, detailed and just incredible sounding. The mixing is just EQ, compression and smart panning. Dont try that at home though, that record is all about the million dollar signal chain ..great mics, converters, pres, etc Its kinda like the big boys saw the project studio coming up fast in their rearview mirror so they stomped on the gas and shot ahead again. Its just not replicatable in the $15,000 studio.
 
Track Rat said:
Mike, I know exactly what you're talking about. It's that scooped out, hyped hi end and over boosted bass. No sir...don't like it...not at all.
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Its a Boost curve that starts at 20Hz and has a dip midpoint thats nearly flat, then the boost curve again as it approaches 20khz. Also, some of the "hiss" might be the dither at the upper levels which is very similar to bias noise, it usually reveals itself on some systems... at around 14khz. Some people don't hear the dither because their ears might have a slight dip at the freq. All of pop music seems to suscribe to this crystalization of the highs and boomy low end.. The Metal stuff is all compressed and normalized to the point the dynamics are all gone....Id be surprised if you could actually hear cymbal decay anywhere!
Im getting real tired of the quick vibrato on all these pop singers and the moany, whiney enunciations....Im partial to Geoff Tate myself...

Peace,
Dennis
 
VOXVENDOR said:
What you might be hearing is the room sound of the reverb being brought up in the mix when it gets squashed....Gives it that whishy, room sound sort of.....
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Yeah, I think VOXVENDOR is close to the mark.

This noise (and it its noise) is the result of the 90's recording arms race to be the loudest kids on the block. This is the signature sound of ultra-ultramaximization.

barefoot
 
Its not noise, its EQ and its not at 20,000, its much lower at 8-12k.
 
JuSumPilgrim said:
Its not noise, its EQ and its not at 20,000, its much lower at 8-12k.
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JSP,
Well, EQ is part of multiband compression after all. One can certainly setup their mastering compressor to accentuate certain frequency bands.

Noise is also a part of compression. A lot of people like to think that the only noise involved in compression is that of raising the noise floor. This is not the case. Because compression uses time dependent and amplitude dependent parameters (attack, release, threshold) it necessarily introduces higher order nonlinearities like harmonic and intermodulation distortion - i.e. noise.

I'm not saying that I'm for sure describing the sound you're hearing, but I think it's a pretty good bet it's what Michael is referring to.

Dennis,
I'm with you there too.

barefoot
 
Im not denying that there has been an loudness race going on for the last couple of decades. But in addition to records now being louder than 10 years ago, they are clearer and more defined. I dont hear noise on commercial CDs, I usually hear transparent compression and alot of space and clarity. What group are you reffering to in particular where you hear "noise"?
 
I don't have many recent big name recordings, but a couple my wife recently bought that I'm pretty sure have this sound are Macy Gray and Alicia Keys. The distortion is not in your face and readily apparent. I think it's primarily lower level intermodulation distortion around -30dB, which has a more sneaky effect. It tends to slowly wear on you, fatigue your ears, then eventually grate on your nerves.

When I get home I'll pick out a few more examples.

barefoot
 
JuSumPilgrim said:
Its not noise, its EQ and its not at 20,000, its much lower at 8-12k.
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I think its a higher freq. than that. Imagine if you will, a cymbol that would sustain for 3-1/2 minutes.
 
i like it

i listen to alot of indie (death cab, coheed and cambria, braid, cursive, calvin krime) and i really like the kinda lo fi natural sound
however i play in a metalcore band (think in flames with breakdowns) and back in my punk rock days, i was a stickler for lo fi, and music that was recorded like shit (i.e diskonto, skitsystem) I think the modern day recording techniques do wonders for metal bands. As much as i hate these shitty nu-metal bands, i envy their sound.
I would love to record with devin townsend (he did the new soilwork, and is the guitar/vocalist/producer of such bands as ocean machine, strapping young lad, terria, physicist, and others), and he is a genious with ear devouring recordings. As for drums, im not really into a natural sounding bass drum at all, many are against this but my band plays with scooped rythym guitar/ mid/high eq'd leads, and a midlow bass, and we have tried to get the frequencies to mesh together (so the high ends don't clash with cymbols, and the low end of the guitars don't crash with the bass (we just got a very good bass player, and want to let him shine) i think even though our drummer is very proficient with double bass getting triggers could help us achieve the sound, and give it the right amount of click to be heard, along with natural sound giving it bump. i feel in these nu-metal recordings you can hear everything with clarity, and brightness (i admit sometimes a little too bright), but its my bag. Any advice on achieving this sound live?
thanks
erik far
 
I knew what you were talking aboot when you first mentioned it.. but I thought you were gonna ask how you could get that sound... not how to avoid getting it... :p I'm basically alone on this one, (other than joedirt) but I like it. I like that bright, "lively" touch they add to the mainstream junk. :p And yes, its entire purpose is to give it that "this is a professional recording" sound.. :p just to separate us from the "real" studios. :rolleyes: Oh well... I look forward one day to having an album that has that "hyped" sound to it... :p cause I'm kinda partial to it. :cool:

WATYF
 
I know exactly what you;re talking about..listen to Everyday by Dave Matthews Band..im not even sure thats them playing on that album anyway. But there is that high end brilliance kinda shit going on. Even on the new nickelback recordings there is that gritty quality to it...
 
just a quick jump in...

Michael Jones said:

I think its a higher freq. than that. Imagine if you will, a cymbol that would sustain for 3-1/2 minutes.
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Joining this thread late, but I'd have to go with JuSumPilgrim on this -- cymbals have the bulk of their energy in the 8kHz octave (5120 Hz ~ 10240 Hz)... Don't know 'bout you, but I can't hear pure tones above about 14~15kHz! All I get are those lovely, piercing harmonics! ;) :p


Chad
 
besides...

...is it a sustained cymbal sound, or just the drummer going fcuk'n crash & ride-nuts? :p

Gotta fill up that sound spectrum somehow; hey! A constant cymbal crash could do that!! :D:D


Chad
 
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