Popular multi-patten mics

T

taylorguitarman

New member
I've decided I need a mic that will do figure 8 so I can do MS stereo recording. I've been wanted the Shure ksm44 for a while but I'm wondering, what are the most popular multipattern mics around here?
And how important is it to match mics for the MS technique? Should I go with a SP B3 to match my SP B1 or can I use any cardiod mic with a multi-pattern mic?
 
taylorguitarman said:
I've decided I need a mic that will do figure 8 so I can do MS stereo recording. I've been wanted the Shure ksm44 for a while but I'm wondering, what are the most popular multipattern mics around here?
And how important is it to match mics for the MS technique? Should I go with a SP B3 to match my SP B1 or can I use any cardiod mic with a multi-pattern mic?
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Popular is not necessarily what you want for two reasons. First, the post popular multi-pattern LDs are the least epensive ones, those under $500 or so. Second, not many who purchase multi-pattern mics use them in Figure-8 configuration or in MS, so the recommendations you get will be far and between.

A figure 8 mic for MS needs to to be identical on both lobes. Not all mics do this. I don't know what your budget is, but here's a few suggestions you might want to consider:

Schoeps CMC6/MK8
Microtech Gefell UMT800
Neumann U87 (or U89)

Good luck!
 
Despite the high end snobbery, I was all set to do a pair of SP B3 for multi-pattern. I wanted omni + figure-8 for Blumlein. I don't expect a pair of B3 to deliver what the snob mics do, but then I'm not paying a snob price, and I'm not doing this for a living.

As it turns out, my primary motivation was LDC omni, but I got the word from Brent Casey (SP designer) that LDC omni is not true "single-sided" omni, because both sides of the capsule hear the sound. At long wave lengths (bass) this tends toward cancellation (bass rolloff). One of the things I really wanted from omni is the true bass response. As it turns out, my SDC C4 pair are true omni, and will deliver bigger bass.

Now... I have to think long and hard about a pair of B3, as they would really only have a use for Blumlein/Figure 8 techniques.
 
Well, after some more research I'm thinking of either the AT4050 (since I really like my AT3035) or the KSM44. I'll be doing mostly solo acoustic stuff (like Kottke tunes and stuff). I'm leaning toward the AT4050.
My bigger question is can I use any mic for the mid of an MS setup or is there any weird phase stuff that I have to worry about?
 
The AT4050 is a great mic, and I highly recommend. Useful for many, many things...

You just want to use a mic for the center that's not TOO drastically different in tone than the one you use for the sides... and no, you don't have to worry about phase issues.
 
Save yourself some money and get a couple of CAD M179s. These mics are fabulous. In my experience they compete with AKG 414's at 1/3 the price ... And they're very quiet. Quite neutral. Smooth high-end. 5 Patterns. I've had outstanding results on piano, vocals ... even the 5-strind banjo. I've used the figure-8 pattern in an MS arrangement with a T.H.E. KA-04 Pre-amp body with the KR-1F omni capsule into my Amek/Neve 9098 Dual mic Pre (it has a shuffler circuit built in for M-S recording) ... AMAZING!
 
Warhead said:
I can't get over what a value it is as well! Simply a great mic.

War

Warren Dent
www.frontendaudio.com
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Ditto on the CAD mics. The M179, VSM and VX2 are nice LDs. Sorry before for suggesting Schoeps, Neumann and Gefell. I guess I didn't see the reference to the SP B3. The VSM smokes the B3.
 
So other than the sample over at the listening sessions, anyone else have samples of the CAD M179. You've sparked my interest in it and if it sounds good enough then I'm willing to save some cash on it. For under $200 I can afford to give it a try.
 
If you have the extra cash lying around, I think either the ksm-44 or the AT 4050 are outstanding options.

But the M179 is certainly no slouch if you're on a budget. I can't say enough good things about it. It's just one of those things that very rarely sucks on anything you point it at.
 
taylorguitarman said:
So other than the sample over at the listening sessions, anyone else have samples of the CAD M179. You've sparked my interest in it and if it sounds good enough then I'm willing to save some cash on it. For under $200 I can afford to give it a try.
Click to expand...

Scroll down to the overhead clip, that is one CAD M179 over my drums through 4 different preamps.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2079&alid=-1

Hope this helps.

War
 
OK,so I had nothing else to do on a monday night ... Here's a link to an m179 "sampler" that I put together for everyone.

Just a warning... it's a very large mp3 (over 8 megs) because I encoded it at 256 kbps in order to maintain some semblance of fidelity. I strongly suggest that you right click on the link and "save as" rather than attempt to open the file in your browser.

By the way, there's no processing of any kind on the first guitar excerpt recorded using the mid-side technique. The rest of the clip shows off the m179 in a variety of settings on vocals, piano, mandolin and guitar. Enjoy.

 
Kelly Dueck said:
OK,so I had nothing else to do on a monday night ... Here's a link to an m179 "sampler" that I put together for everyone.


Click to expand...

Sounds pretty darn good! Makes me want to buy a couple M179s.

Don
 
I'm very impressed. The m179 sounds great on that acoustic (I think anyway). Where was the recording done? I'm still working out of my bedroom (with a couple of 703 panels) but I'm hunting for a house now and will be building a recording room for sure.
I noticed frontend has a good deal on them. Might have to pickup one. Then I'll need a tube mic to round out my budget collection.
 
Thanks.

The guitar was mic'd and recorded in my home studio (an 11' x 12' former bedroom treated with primacoustic foam panels and corner wedges. There's also an area rug over a fir floor.)

It's a pretty comfortable recording space. Unfortunately I made the recording around 9:30 p.m. which is close to my wife's bedtime (she works an early shift) and at one point in the clip you can hear her mucking around in the bathroom next door ... shows you how sensitive the mics are!

The mics were set up roughly 2 feet straight out from the midpoint between the sound hole and the neck joint. One with the lobes of the figure 8 pattern facing left and right and the other in cardioid pointing straight ahead and positioned directly over the null of the figure 8.

It's too bad these mics don't get more press. I only heard about them because of a review in Sound on Sound magazine and ordered them based on that review. I've never looked back.

Kelly
 
Taylorguitarman... sdelsolray's post is right on the money...

sdelsolray said:
Popular is not necessarily what you want for two reasons. First, the post popular multi-pattern LDs are the least epensive ones, those under $500 or so. Second, not many who purchase multi-pattern mics use them in Figure-8 configuration or in MS, so the recommendations you get will be far and between.

A figure 8 mic for MS needs to to be identical on both lobes. Not all mics do this. I don't know what your budget is, but here's a few suggestions you might want to consider:

Schoeps CMC6/MK8
Microtech Gefell UMT800
Neumann U87 (or U89)

Good luck!
Click to expand...

And chessrock's recommendations (KSM44 and the AT4050) are good mic's too.
 
sdelsolray said:
Ditto on the CAD mics. The M179, VSM and VX2 are nice LDs. Sorry before for suggesting Schoeps, Neumann and Gefell. I guess I didn't see the reference to the SP B3. The VSM smokes the B3.
Click to expand...

I've never directly compared a B3 and a VSM (I have a VSM here) but the VSM is quite nice. Very little sibilance and can be worked quite close on vocals. Love it on guitar cabs etc. as well.

However, the VX2 is the best mic purchase I've ever made. The dual capsule set is sweet and versatile. I like the smaller capsule on acoustics etc. and things that require some more high end snap...and that 1.25" capsule just smokes on vocals, cabs, room mic, you name it.

Anyhow, this damn mic has vibe for days. Dual tubes...dual humbucking transformers...yum...but it's just a tad outside the original poster's price range methinks... ;)

War
 
I'm glad this came up, because I just found out about M&S recording. I have a AT 4050 and a MILAB DC96. I also have a JoeMeek VC7 preamp with M&S outputs.

But I'm not sure how to set up the microphones. Should I place the 4050 with figure 8 pointing to the left and right, and the DC96 (cardioid) at the same location but pointing towards the source?
And how do I use the M&S outputs on my preamp?

Thanks!
 
BootCut said:
But I'm not sure how to set up the microphones. Should I place the 4050 with figure 8 pointing to the left and right, and the DC96 (cardioid) at the same location but pointing towards the source?
And how do I use the M&S outputs on my preamp?
QUOTE]

Yes, point the lobes of the figure 8 left and right and the cardioid pointing straight ahead. Try to position the diaphragm of the DC96 so that it is directly perpendicular to the centre of the null on the figure 8.

I have never used the Joe Meek pre so I don't know how the outputs work. I can say that on the Amek 9098, the cardioid mic goes into channel 1 and the figure 8 goes into channel two. Upon playback the cardioid track is panned hard left and the figure 8 track is panned hard right and it all works out. Blend in the amount of figure 8 to control the stereo width.

If that doesn't work, take the output from your figure 8 mic, copy it to another track in your DAW ( I assume you are working in some sort of computer-based system) and flip that track out of phase then pan the two figure 8 tracks left and right and put the cardioid track up the middle. Blend to taste in order to get your width. When your stereo tracks are summed to mono, the figure 8 or "side" tracks will cancel and you'll be left with the cardioid mono signal if mono compatability is a big issue.
Click to expand...
 
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