plz name that overhead micing technique

R

ron82

New member
i'm curious.. whats that? x/y? from what i heard, when micing x/y the capsules almost touch each other, also it seem like the mics point towards the drums, from behind, not down like they would with x/y (wouldnt they?)

im just really curious about this, because these pics are from the studio sessions of one of my favorite bands :)

front view

side view
 
Looks like some species of the spaced co-incidents technique. ORTF, NOS or one of the variations.

I vote ORTF.
 
From the descriptions given my best conjecture would be that the DIN Stereo miking technique is being utilised in this instance.


I'm pretty darned sure it's not the Spaced Omni technique.
 
From Sweetwater.com

A stereo recording technique where two cardioid microphones are spaced 20 cm and angled 90° creating the stereo image. This is remarkably close to an ORTF configuration. The DIN stereo produces a blend of intensity between stereo signals and time delay stereo signals, due to the off-axis attenuation of the cardioid microphones together with the 20 cm spacing. If used at larger distances to the sound source the DIN stereo technique will lose the low frequencies due to the influence of the proximity effect on these types of microphones. The DIN stereo technique is more useful at shorter distances, for example on piano, small ensembles or used for creating stereo on an instrument section in a classical orchestra.
Click to expand...
 
That's looks like a certain way to ensure a phase issue.... it's in XY placement but shifted about a foot apart, meaning there'll be a 1.x mS time difference between mics, almost guaranteed to create comb-filtering.

To me it looks like someone tried for XY, but didn't really understand the importance of the placement!
 
fenix said:
yeah x/y is nice sometimes but space them apart to ensure there are no phase issues.
Click to expand...
huh? In XY, the mics are placed above each other but 90-130 degrees apart.... it's the fact that they AREN'T spaced apart that eliminates the phase issues (since the sound hits each mic at pretty much the same time....!

In the photo, they've placed the mics in XY position except they spaced them apart by about a foot, which means there's a 1 mS timing difference between the mic, virtually guaranteeing a phase issue.
 
:)
thanks blue bear.. well, that was the bands first album.. under an indie label (but a popular one) - though i have no idea who set up these mics..

oh well thanks for your comments :D
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
huh? In XY, the mics are placed above each other but 90-130 degrees apart.... it's the fact that they AREN'T spaced apart that eliminates the phase issues (since the sound hits each mic at pretty much the same time....!

In the photo, they've placed the mics in XY position except they spaced them apart by about a foot, which means there's a 1 mS timing difference between the mic, virtually guaranteeing a phase issue.
Click to expand...


Come on Blue Bear, you know better than that. There are many "spaced coincident" stereo micing methods. This one (which appears to be about eight inches apart) is called ORTF. Check out DPA's Mic University for more on the technique. My self, I use it inside of pianos more often than any other technique.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
erhm...ORTF should be if he pointed the capsules outwards....
Here, the capsules are pointing inwards, that's some pattern "colapse" u got there. That would probably sound more like a shrinky phasey stereo image.
Blue Bear knows better.
 
Yup... look again, Light! :)

I suspect I AM correct that someone tried for XY and failed.... that definitely is not ORTF or NOS.......!!
 
MrGrooves said:
erhm...ORTF should be if he pointed the capsules outwards....
Here, the capsules are pointing inwards, that's some pattern "colapse" u got there. That would probably sound more like a shrinky phasey stereo image.
Blue Bear knows better.
Click to expand...

Look again at the front view. They ARE pointed outwards, as well as a little forward, but that does not affect wither or not it is ORTF. I see nothing which would necessarily lead to a "phasy" sound. The mics are more or less symmetrical, which is good. Remember, most of the interest in wide stereo micing COMES from phase incoherencies. If those two mics are panned fairly wide, I would imagine it could sound just fine. Pan them together and it would probably sound pretty bad, but then that is usually the case with any of the wide stereo techniques. I guess the real question is if anyone has heard the recording?

And I know Blue Bear knows what he is doing, which is why I challenged him. It is always fun to get on another professionals ass when he is talking out of it.;)
 
Yes, but the angle is occurring on the inner side of the mics, not "beyond" as would be more typical.

I guess we'll never know unless whoever placed them shows up!

It's either they knew what they were doing, or they didn't! ;)

:D
 
I don't believe its any of the above options. Remeber that X-Y, ORTF etc are standardized starting points for "basic" mic'ing techniques. There is a huge amount of subjectiveness and experimentation that occurs when mic'ing. To me it looks like a spaced pair modified to catch the kit over all, but to also get the crashes at the right distance for level balance. I would imagine they are set on cardioid as well.
When your looking at a setup where your cymbal count goes up, the comb filtering effect is less than a problem, mainly because the phase issues are more obvious. Just moving a mic 1/2 inch can be magical. Be inventive and be mobile in getting the mic's setup. I have this Barcus Barry/Zildian cymbal micing thing I used in the past...its my fall back If I can't get the cymbal right with the O/H's. IMO


SoMm
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
huh? In XY, the mics are placed above each other but 90-130 degrees apart.... it's the fact that they AREN'T spaced apart that eliminates the phase issues (since the sound hits each mic at pretty much the same time....!

In the photo, they've placed the mics in XY position except they spaced them apart by about a foot, which means there's a 1 mS timing difference between the mic, virtually guaranteeing a phase issue.
Click to expand...
i meant facing outwards. instead of like this: \ / , like this: / \

I used this technique very successfully in the 3 mp3s featured right here:
http://harleyquinrock.com/html/site/disc.html
 
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