Plugins vs. Outboard, Economics of

[generalchaos316]

Hey all,

I am starting research for some upgrades in the (hopefully near) future and am having trouble deciding on investing in plugins or outboard gear. There looks to be plenty of discussion recently about the aural pros/cons of each but there hasn't been much that I could find by way of how the economics pan out.

Now I know that there are numerous variables on my end that should affect such a purchase (which I am not going to post here for the purpose of keeping the post on track). The scenario is: Most of my investement thus far has been in interface, mics, and cables and for the first time I feel like I can go for some signal processing. I am essentially a hobbyist and haven't been able to purchase more than 1-2 upgrades a year for some time now. For this reason, software plugins cause me some worry as then carry the likely "upgrade fee" somewhere down the line which I view as a wasted potential toward a future purchase (as I am paying money for essentially the same thing). When I buy something, I like to do my best to ensure it is something that I can use until I break it (as opposed to it breaking itself). The other factor is that I don't get to record a ton right now (though I am working on changing that) which makes me fear there is the chance I might not get my "money's worth" out of a plugin purchase.

I am interested to hear how those who have gone through several product lifecycles weigh in here. Am I being overly paranoid about "forced" upgrades due to incompatibilities and outdated support over time? Have people seen more losses when they invested in one form of processing over the other? What kind of happy mediums have been found (like mic pres, compressors on outboard and autotune, EQ in the box)?

GAAHH!!! *headexplodes* I am using Pro Tools 7 LE for what it is worth on the plugin front.

 

[pipelineaudio]

There are enough free plugins out there to handle anything. The ones you actually have to pay for dont have a direct equivalent in the hardware world.

 

[SonicAlbert]

If you are using ProTools LE then you can buy the Steve Massey plugins. These are some of the best deals around in my opinion, and they sound excellent. The cool thing is, you can use them for free in a slightly limited form, and if you like them pay for them to get the additional features. I highly recommend them.

As far as free plugins, there are some good ones. But in reality most of the plugins I find useful and of higher quality are those that need to be paid for.

The other trap you are falling into is that you are viewing plugins and hardware as simply a financial investment. No matter what you buy, with a few exceptions, it will go down in value over time.

So the purpose of gear is to do something that you want done. If you are working on some music and you need something to achieve the sound you are going for, then buy it. Plugin, hardware, it doesn't matter in a hobby scenario. The point is that you buy it based on what you need and want, and forget about this stuff as some sort of investment. It isn't.

I use both hardware and plugins. My plugin collection is not particularly large, but everything I have I like a lot and use. Same goes for the hardware.

I've been through many product lifecycles, many many product lifecycles! Software will become obsolete faster than hardware. Some software products are discontinued and then when a new OS or computer comes out, they are no longer usable. That does happen, no question. That's why with software and plugins you buy what you need right now and just understand that it has little to no resale value. But that's not why you are buying it, right?

Hardware will tend to last longer, and is less dependent on the computer, or not dependent at all. But with hardware there's a tendency to feel the need to upgrade in a different way. Unless you buy first class gear right from the start you'll probably be going through many product lifecycles there as well. constantly upgrading based on what your ears are telling you.

So if compatibility with computer changes is really a concern to you, buy hardware. If you don't change computers that often, then perhaps some plugins might be the way to go if that's what you need.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

I would say that as a very general statement plugins have a lower cost. Both have a pretty low life cycle cost and hardware, at least the good stuff, has a substantially higher purchase price.

I would also say very generally that hardware sounds better than plugins, but the best plugins are pretty darn good and have advantages in that you can use multiple instances and that they have total recall.

Most plugins have upgrade paths that are free or not too expensive. The real issue is that plugins continue to improve, whereas a classic hardware piece will probably never be improved on. So eventually you will want new, better sounding plugins no matter what.

I don't think many people have done an economic evaluation because they either have strong workflow or sonic preferences or they are simply priced out of the hardware market. You have to make a very serious investment for hardware to be worth your while. You're better off buying great plugins than cheap hardware IMO.

 

[rsolinski]

Plug ins = lower cost, no resale value. GOOD hardware= higher cost but will not depreciate in value and has a resale value...Have you seen the prices people are getting for vintage 1176's and Neve pre's?..I personally like to have a mixture of both hardware and software. I have heard the Massey plugs and they are indeed fabulous but unfortunately (well, actaually fortunately since I don't like pro tools!) at home I am not running protools..I hope he comes out with a direct x or vst version soon. Free plug ins are like cheap mics..they sound okay until you hear something like the Massey suite..then you know ...If you go the hardware route do your research and buy pieces that have stood the test of time and you won't really be out any$$

Ray

 

[pipelineaudio]

Free plug ins are like cheap mics..they sound okay until you hear something like the Massey suite..then you know

there are PLENTY of good free plugins which cannot be bettered by hardware or paid plugins

There are plenty of examples the other way as well.

It all depends

There is NO hardware gate in the world for any money, that can compete with even most of the worst plugin gates, due to the very nature of time itself.

Conversely there arent any manual pitch correctors Im aware of freeware that can compete with Waves Tune or Antares Autotune

I'm still leaning on hardware reverbs for the most part, but the only reason for that is a lack of will for coders to port their hardware reverb code over to the plugin format.

If got as much super analog hardware as nearly anyone, but if I do direct comparisons, the plugins hold their own.

 

[rsolinski]

I am with you on plug in gates but I don't use gates since I am in a DAW and can automate my volumes pretty easily and I think free delays rare plenty good...I have yet to find any plug, free or otherwise that can do what my LA2a does..I have a bunch of good software comps and they are very useful but none can touch an LA2a, (Fairchild 660 or Sta level which I don't own but can rent as needed)..or my 1176 with the class A output..All of these boxes have alot of color so I think it is hard to model real world distortion as it varies with temp, humidity, age of caps, transformers etc...I have yet to hear an eq that sounds like a gml or old Sontec..as for modeling, a mathemetician worth his salt will tell you any real world situation has the potential for an infinite amount of variables..that makes for alot of code

Ray

 

[pipelineaudio]

I am with you on plug in gates but I don't use gates since I am in a DAW and can automate my volumes pretty easily and I think free delays rare plenty good..

I know what you are saying, but I cant resist

I'd like to see one of your projects where you automate the volume for every single kick and snare instead of gating it

I keed I keed

.I have yet to find any plug, free or otherwise that can do what my LA2a does..I have a bunch of good software comps and they are very useful but none can touch an LA2a, (Fairchild 660 or Sta level which I don't own but can rent as needed)..or my 1176 with the class A output..All of these boxes have alot of color so I think it is hard to model real world distortion as it varies with temp, humidity, age of caps, transformers etc...I have yet to hear an eq that sounds like a gml or old Sontec..as for modeling, a mathemetician worth his salt will tell you any real world situation has the potential for an infinite amount of variables..that makes for alot of code

My LA2A's, Varimu's and other goodies mostly sit unplugged in my racks nowdays, as, though its true, they can do things I havent yet been able to get software to model completely, the software compressors can do a LOT that the hardware cant, due to the nature of the laws of time

Though I have a lot of tube gear, I dont usually use it for any character, but just due to the likelihood that the higher quality circuit will give me more of what I am putting in than a distorted, noisy cheap, SMT opamp

 

[generalchaos316]

Thank you all for the most excellent feedback. I especially think the "figure out the problem a piece of gear is supposed to solve" mentality really hit home. It also looks like plugins aren't quite as much of a money-sink as I may have initially thought (not like this hobby isn't a money-sink to begin with... ). I was unaware that people were actually crazy enough to release free plugins...so I have also started looking into those as well. Perhaps a better route might be to post some songs in the critique area and see what people hear. That way if several songe seem to need the same processing, that would make the decision a little easier.

 

[Robert D]

Perhaps a better route might be to post some songs in the critique area and see what people hear. That way if several songe seem to need the same processing, that would make the decision a little easier.

I think you'll find that most engineers have a pretty small set of "go to" processors that get used on a majority of thier projects, and then a pool of other goodies to draw from for a little different flavor. It's that basic tool set that you want to invest in, dial in, and really get to know well. The rest can be a pool of freebie plugins.

 

[eyema_believer]

Plus one here

I think you'll find that most engineers have a pretty small set of "go to" processors that get used on a majority of thier projects, and then a pool of other goodies to draw from for a little different flavor. It's that basic tool set that you want to invest in, dial in, and really get to know well. The rest can be a pool of freebie plugins.

I use Cubase SX3, and I own almost every Waves plugin there is. ( I did, until the Mercury stuff came out.) To be honest, the plugins I use most came with Cubase: the compressor and Eq.

On the life cycle... I used to own a sucessful company that built audio computers for studios. I've been at this computer audio thing a long time. I used to know every single feature of a piece of software before it even hit the street. Nowadays, software is so powerful and complex, I will never ever completely learn all of the aspects of how a program like Cubase can be used! Maybe I'm just getting old. But hear this: My Cubase runs better and does more today on the computer I have now than the one I had two years ago. To me, we're at a place where we might never have to upgrade software again, or at least for a very long time. You'll be able to buy Windows XP Pro for a very long time. The badest software you could buy three or four years ago runs great on a Core 2 Duo machine with a big old bunch of ram.

My advice would be to buy a great multitrack package that will run on your machine, and comes with a bunch of plugs, like Cubase. You'll get a heck of a lot of mileage out of the included plugins and VSTi(s).

Peace!

~Shawn