Plug-ins have no effect while recording

  • Thread starter Thread starter Middleman
  • Start date Start date
Middleman

Middleman

Professional Amateur
I just realized that plug-ins have no effect on the incoming audio being recorded in Sonar. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I recorded 1 vocal to 5 tracks at once with different levels of compression for testing. The base track is the same in all cases so, while you can monitor the effects in real time and also after the wav is recorded, they are not really affecting the audio recorded to disk.

I guess this means that compression, gating and limiting really requires one to have external hardware to get the signal under control prior to recording in Cakewalk.

Are there any software packages that do this? Perhaps Pro tools?
 
Had the same problem.

Was trying to track a backing vocal in stereo. I purposely inserted the L1 on the left channel and left the right channel as it was. While monitoring, it appeared the L1 was doing its thing and I could hear the difference as well. But when playing back the tracks they were pretty much the same, visually and sonicly, when I deleted the L1 from the inserted track.

I thought that this was one of the benefits of the WDM drivers and unless I'm doing something wrong ,it appears that monitoring effects will be all thats possible..which would be a dissappointment...I am gonna contact Cake on this one and you should also..as well as everyone else..maybe it could be a future upgrade..if its even possible to accomplish in the software realm...

As far as other software being able to do this ...Im not sure..
but I do remember that the Aardvark 2496 had a compressor and a few other effects that I believe could be used during recording..not sure on that one, but maybe someone else can validate that . If so, then the audio card manufacturers would possibly be the ones that make this happen..
 
Of course they don't affect the audio that's recorded. Why would you want to do that? Once you apply an effect permanently, you can't remove it. It's analogous to a multitrack tape deck where you typically want to get a good, clean, unaffected signal to tape, and then add effects while mixing. The effects get "printed" to the stereo master but the multitrack master is left alone for the most part for maximum flexibility.

If you want the effects put into your track permanently it's a very simple thing to do.
 
There are certain effects that are quite benefial while tracking and they were mentioned above...compression, limiting and gating...in fact, if done in the tracking phase, you benefit by not only taming the track ,but getting a better signal to noise ratio.. the more dyanmic the sound..the more you benefit from either compression or limiting prior to going to HD..if its done later..and it most certainly will be..you will raising the noise in the track ..if at the same time you are applying gain to the track thats being processed..

The real benefactors would be voice...probably the most dynamic of the accoustic instruments and bass instruments..

Incidently, Ive never been to a pro studio that didnt use a compressor and/or limiter while tracking vocals,drums, acoustic piano just to name a few..if you are not doing so now..you may want to consider trying it..of course it will have to be done with outboard gear..until we can get some modifications or clarification on how to use it in software apps :)
 
Think about it, guys. If you want to tame the incoming signal (via compression, limiting, etc.) you would need to do this before the A to D coversion. Once it's been digitized, if it's over 0db, there ain't a whole lot you can do with it. You won't be able to recapture the lost bits.

Therefore, how could you do this with software?

Input monitoring in Sonar is taking the digitized, recorded signal and applying software effects to it, and it's trying to do it in real time - i.e., as it's being recorded (or immediately afterwards). That's why you have major latency issues with this.

What you guys are asking for is for the signal to be effected prior to it's being digitized and captured. Since the A/D is occuring as the signal is entering the computer, I don't see how you could accomplish this.
 
Guys,

dachay2tnr has the right stuff here. There isn't a recording app out there that applies effects to incoming signals (at least not any that I have ever used.

Any kind of effects prior to A/D conversion are usually hardware based. In my setup, most signals pass through my Mindprint Envoice then to the sound card.

Cheers,

Cuzin B
 
Cuzin B said:
Guys,

dachay2tnr has the right stuff here. There isn't a recording app out there that applies effects to incoming signals (at least not any that I have ever used.

Any kind of effects prior to A/D conversion are usually hardware based. In my setup, most signals pass through my Mindprint Envoice then to the sound card.

Cheers,

Cuzin B
Click to expand...

As much as I've been extolling the virtues of PC-based recording vs the HD recorder, my VS-880 gives you the choice of Postfade, Prefade and Insert(which I'm pretty sure will print the effect). No detectible latency on the HD recorder either, but a strict limit on # of plugs. If you like how it sounds, though, bounce track w/effects. It frees up CPU and you get to keep the original dry track.

Cuzin B, how's your mom, Aunt B? :D

How are things up there in God's country? Getting ready for the Stampede?
 
ChuckUFarlie!

Ya got a point there. If you go to something like the VS-880 - it's totally different ballgame. Mind you - Middleman is recording via PC to Sonar...so I figured I would stay in that zone.

Stampede? That's for tourists and shitkickers. The real drinking takes place year round if ya know where to go. :)

Take care!

Cuzin B
 
dachay2tnr, got the A/D thing.

The best you could do is a bus loop between A and D for processing the analog (would require hardware compression any way) which brings you back to external handling being the best option. Perhaps not as clean as an onboard approach though.

I think the best results however, as elbenj points out, would be to limit and compress prior to the soundcard. This just to keep the signal tall without the transients and noise floor issues.

Does anyone do on-board compression on the Analog signal in a PC board?
 
This has always annoyed me about computer recording for years, as elbenj hit the nail it'd be nice to get killer s/n ration when compressing/etc on the way in, all in the digital realm. That combined with a lack of realtime tape saturation where you ride that nice space in +db's is probably the biggest adjustment I had to face moving from analogue when it came down to how I work.

But I always thought you were getting the cleanest possible recording using digital on computer because of the binary accuracy. Then after reading the thread about clocks and jitter in Recording Techniques, my head is spinning. It's like looking behind the curtain and discovering that's not a real dinosaur in Jurassic Park.

Seems progress is always a tradeoff. :)
 
Heinz,


"This has always annoyed me about computer recording for years, as elbenj hit the nail it'd be nice to get killer s/n ration when compressing/etc on the way in, all in the digital realm.

With the Mindprint Envoice I get exacting that : Digital all the way. Typical signal chain: Rode NTV Tube Mic-> MindPrint SPDIF OUT -> SPDIF IN on my Delta 66-> Computer.

Crisp and clean with no caffeine - killer S/N ratio with tube compression/parametric EQ on the way in and digital all the way. Gets better yet - Using SPDIF OUT from the Delta and SPDIF IN on the Mindprint , I can fly tracks out digitally from the computer...process them digitally in the Envoice and fly them back in all at the same time. It is sweet.

Cuzin B
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top