Please Listen...

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Dr. Varney

Dr. Varney

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We were talking about mixing drums earlier in the Mixing/Mastering forum and one or two people asked if I could put it up, so they could have a listen.

So here is the piece I've been working on.

Now please - feel free to give your HONEST opinions on this mix. I don't mind if you tear it to pieces or add a few ideas... I just need to know if I'm hitting any kind of mark, so I can learn from it.

Tragic Day. It's the only one there, so you can't miss it.

Enjoy... (or not, as the case may be...)

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1013934

Dr. V
 
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your first in the MP3 clinic?

for starters well done Doc..a month or so ago I thought you were just going to give up!


as for the mix, for your first sketch its great...much better than my first attempts..

here's what I hear wrong with it immediately

drums are way too quiet, they need to come right up in the mix, when there's no vocals its sometimes better to match the bass and drums together then bring everything else in to their levels

give everything headroom (maybe start at having the mix average around -14db in volume)

the organ is too loud...in fact your levels need tweaked with most of the instruments

Im one of the firm believers that a bass should be in the centre of the mix...or at least very close to centre...it will drive the tune better

but apart from that well done mate...nice build up...groovy little tune, could maybe do with a cheeky vocal sample in there just to keep the interest going

welcome to recording :)
 
Eh, thank you very much, kcearl for the compliments and taking the time, mate.

I'm glad you mentioned drums.. I was having some indecision about their levels. I've started fixing that and applying some automation to vol. enelopes as well.

I've put the bass much closer to the center, on your suggestion. Works!

As for lyrics - the song has them, waiting and ready to be sung over (as soon as I can get the singer back in).

The lyrics form a conversation between the wife of a dead rock star, his manager (who shot him) and the young fan who is accused of his murder. It's a very dark comedy, hence the twinkling organ, glibly flapping around over a background of sad strings and sinister gun shots.

There's also a Hammond Organ set up and ready to go in, which will be freestyled, over the top... I guess it has maybe an early Stranglers or Doors influence in there, somewhere.

What do you mean by headroom? Do you mean having most of it at -14DB then the peaks hitting 00? I'll certainly try it and see what it sounds like.

When the newsest mix is up, I hope you'll listen again...?

Cheers!

Dr. V
 
Dr. Varney said:
Eh, thank you very much, kcearl for the compliments and taking the time, mate.

I'm glad you mentioned drums.. I was having some indecision about their levels. I've started fixing that and applying some automation to vol. enelopes as well.

I've also put the bass much closer to the center.

As for lyrics - the song has them, waiting and ready to be sung over (as soon as I can get the singer back in).

The lyrics form a conversation between the wife of a dead rock star, his manager (who shot him) and the young fan who is accused of his murder. It's a very dark comedy, hence the twinkling organ, glibly flapping around over a background of sad strings and sinister gun shots.

There's also a Hammond Organ set up and ready to go in, which will be freestyled, over the top... I guess it has maybe an early Stranglers or Doors influence in there, somewhere.

What do you mean by headroom? Do you mean having most of it at -14DB then the peaks hitting 00? I'll certainly try it and see what it sounds like.

When the newsest mix is up, I hope you'll listen again...?

Cheers!

Dr. V
Click to expand...


yeah -14db does seem quiet but just turn your volume up...if you ever want to master this track with others its good to have that headroom..it would give your "virtual" mastering engineer room to play with (I know, its just a rule of thumb though)


the best way to learn about mixes as a homerecorder is to listen to other mixes here, the best way to get comments on your mixes is to leave comments on theirs...just because you're new at it doesn't mean to say you don't have a decent set of ears


Id gladly listen/comment to anything you put out...Im only a few months experience ahead of you but I improve with every go, if that helps you then great :)
 
I've now got the mix averaging around -12DB now but it does seem very quiet, compared with other stuff I listen to, through the PC Wave output. ASIO seems much quieter. Does that ring true with you?

I had to raise the level of the ASIO on my soundcard's DSP and actually lower the PC Wave output to get a comparrison.

Nevertheless, I have achieved that headroom.

I don't know if this is the right way, but instead of changing all individual levels, I've run all my sub-mixes into a set of four busses (bass, drums, keys, vocal) sent at lower output to the master.

Dr. V
 
Dr. Varney said:
I've now got the mix averaging around -12DB now but it does seem very quiet, compared with other stuff I listen to, through the PC Wave output. ASIO seems much quieter. Does that ring true with you?

I had to raise the level of the ASIO on my soundcard's DSP and actually lower the PC Wave output to get a comparrison.

Nevertheless, I have achieved that headroom.

I don't know if this is the right way, but instead of changing all individual levels, I've run all my sub-mixes into a set of four busses (bass, drums, keys, vocal) sent at lower output to the master.

Dr. V
Click to expand...


generally you would bring up the loudness of the mixes during the mastering stage...if you've got one track pushing the limits then its going to be harder to get them sounding the same volume/likeness..


check with others here as Im only going by what Im learning...you bring up the mixes volume at the next stage using compression and/or maximisers, inflators etc


I dont see the problem with grouping tracks into busses...but the project Im working on has 33 tracks and I've only grouped the 6 tracks of the drums...don't get stuck in the process, early projects generally don't have much more than, say, 15 tracks so other than the drums you don't have to group them??

please remember Im a beginner too...so nothing I say's gospel (and my posted mixes are shite..Ive just EQ'd them all again and havent got around to remixing them)

Id also say good examples of mixes here are Joeym, GregL, Heatmeister, and Jeffhmaher*...they are distinct genres but all have it going on, listen to their tracks through your system then your own...these are mostly pre mastered so you'll get a good idea of where you are going rather than listening to a mastered CD/MP3, dont worry about volume

*there are others I just mentioned these guys as I like the way they do it
 
Thanks...!

So what you're saying is, leave headroom in the track for other stuff - then aim the finished thing for 00db? The idea feels right, at least...

All my very early stuff started out with none-grouped tracks. I've found bussing offers me a lot of flexibility but I can see times when it's not needed.

For a beginner, you seem to know your stuff... I haven't heard any but you're probably running yourself down too much. At this stage, I suppose it's safe to call yourself an 'improver'.

I think the important thing is, you're willing to listen to other people's mixes and learn from them.

Cheers

Dr. V
 
I dont work doc...when Im not recording, im reading, when Im not reading, im mucking about on guitar...keyboards, writing, making loops, drum midi files, jamming with friends etc etc

Ive got around five songs still needing recorded and thats with losing a hard-drive 2 weeks ago

but you nail it...listen to other folks...and give them your 2 cents worth..it all helps you pull it together and encourages others to listen to your stuff

cheers to you too
 
Kc is right about the drums. They need more volume. I think when people (or me) try to mix, during the process you can become so focused on a particular sound like, say, a kick drum, that your ears learn to isolate that sound and the result of all this attention is the sound comes across louder (to you) than it actually is. Thus, it winds up placed too low in the mix.

For example, I'm a guitar player. Unless a drummer is doing something really spectacular, then when I'm listening to music just for listening's sake I hardly notice drums, much less a kick drum. But, when trying to mix something, sometimes something like a kick drum is virtually the only thing I hear and I think it's too loud when it's not. Then I listen with mixing ears to other records and compare, and I realize that kick drums are much more prominent than I realize when I'm only listening casually. In fact, this goes for drums in general. In rock music, they are LOUD. I just don't always notice it. So, in my limited mixing experience, I'm usually fighting between not wanting to notice the drums like when I'm casually listening and placing them high enough in a mix.

Anyway, the short version is, your drums need to be louder.
 
I just realized, I suppose you are making a reference to that bizarre story of the jilted lady astronaut who drove across the bible belt - in diapers so that she didn't have to be inconvenienced by restroom breaks. Astronaut love triangle is a great name.
 
nave said:
I just realized, I suppose you are making a reference to that bizarre story of the jilted lady astronaut who drove across the bible belt - in diapers so that she didn't have to be inconvenienced by restroom breaks. Astronaut love triangle is a great name.
Click to expand...

HAH! You got it, Nave.

I've been picking up qoutes and phrases for years; storing them either in my brain or in a notebook, for use as a possible band name. I heard that story and thought what a great name for a band... Hey, no one will ever get that...! But you did - so, congratulations, sir! :D

Dr. V
 
nave said:
Anyway, the short version is, your drums need to be louder.
Click to expand...

Okay... Try this one:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1013934

I've brought the drums right up. Here's the thing... mix-10 doesn't sound that different to mix-08. in terms of drum volume.

I'm not sure if I've just brought everything else up to meet them but I do know I increased drum levels.

And if I have inadvertantly brought the other levels up, then that must mean the drums sound right to me, in comparison with everything else.

But the question is - do they sound right to the audience?

So please give mix-10 a listen and see what you think. The second part, where the bass comes in and beyond is really where drums start to be part of what I'd call 'the groove' - and where I'd intuitively want louder drums. On the piano intro, I'm really only using them as a hazy backdrop, before the song really starts (if that makes sense?)

Edit: I've raised the volume envelope on the main drum mix, to get a comparison in mix-10(drums louder).

Cheers

Dr. V
 
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All my friends drive a low rider.........


That's what this sounds like.


I'm listening to the newest mix. I loves me some loud drums, but I think you went too far. Reel em back in a hair.
 
Greg_L said:
All my friends drive a low rider.........


That's what this sounds like.


I'm listening to the newest mix. I loves me some loud drums, but I think you went too far. Reel em back in a hair.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Will do. You lot are my first audience. :o:):)

Dr. V
 
Not bad for an early try, Doc....my early ones were unfit for consumption......:D
I listened to the latest mix and I quite like the drums up front like they are. They make the thing groove. And I like your bass tone. Some geetars wouldn't sound too bad....;)

Joey :):):):)
 
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