Please help me decide on a mic preamp

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JLM

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I've narrowed my choices down to three low-end preamps and would like you guys' opinions on them: Studio Projects VTB-1, M-Audio DMP-3 and FMR's RNP.

I would guess that obviously the best of the three would be the RNP but it's a little more than twice the price of either of the other two. Which is best between the VTB-1 and DMP-3? I'm leaning towards the DMP-3 only because there are two channels versus only one on the VTB-1. I noticed that Blue Bear had the VTB-1 listed on his studio site though so it must be good right?? Finally, is there really that big of a difference between the RNP and the other two to warrant me paying close to $500? I guess I'm just looking for the best overall value from whichever mic pre I choose.

I'd also like to mention that all I'm using now for mic pre's are what are on my Soundcraft Spirit Folio mixing board. Would all three of these mic pre's be an upgrade over the Soundcraft pre's?
 
JLM said:
I noticed that Blue Bear had the VTB-1 listed on his studio site though so it must be good right??
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I use it, along with an ART Tube mostly as a DI for bass - both units work quite well in those applications. I used the VTB-1 the odd time as an extra mic pre here and there - certainly usable enough, but I don't consider it a first reach...

JLM said:
Finally, is there really that big of a difference between the RNP and the other two to warrant me paying close to $500?
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Yes...
 
I recently auditioned both the DMP3 and the RNP with vocal tracks... The DMP3 sounded a little darker, the RNP sounded nice, but there wasn't an amazing difference between the two... This was all done recording the same vocal... For the difference in money, I would suggest the DMP3, you're not getting any major advantage by going with the RNP...
 
tradivoro said:
For the difference in money, I would suggest the DMP3, you're not getting any major advantage by going with the RNP...
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I'd have to disagree.... just because your ears, gear, or monitor chain aren't sufficiently critical for you to hear it, doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a rather large difference.
 
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I would rather have the RNP for vocal detail and its top end for stringed instruments. However, if I was on a budget, the DMP3 would suffice.
 
Well, that may be, but I didn't feel for the difference that it warranted the extra expense... If the rnp was $200 - $250, I'd say, get the rnp, but there wasn't a $500 difference in my experience... I'm glad you can hear it though...

Blue Bear Sound said:
I'd have to disagree.... just because your ears, gear, or monitor chain aren't sufficiently critical for you to hear it, doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a rather large difference.
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Actually the difference is about $300. $470 for the RNP and about $170 for the DMP3. Is the RNP better? Undoubtably - I've read little but great reviews about the unit (no first hand experience with it myself however). The question really is if your wallet can handle the extra $300 at this point to acquire the unit, or if the decent and cheaper DMP3 can suffice for your uses. When you're on a budget, the $300 can come in handy on other things - like beer and cheetos!

I'm looking for a $500-700 mic pre myself currently. Actually I'd prefer a strip I think. Single channel would probably suffice, want it primarily for vocals. Lots to choose from, Focusrite Plat Voice Pro, Toft EC1, RNP, and on and on. Still so undecided!

-Krag
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I just went ahead and bought the RNP. I've heard too many good things about it to not spend the extra.
 
tradivoro said:
I recently auditioned both the DMP3 and the RNP with vocal tracks... The DMP3 sounded a little darker, the RNP sounded nice, but there wasn't an amazing difference between the two... This was all done recording the same vocal... For the difference in money, I would suggest the DMP3, you're not getting any major advantage by going with the RNP...
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Here's what I've learned: the pres on my Mackie (which I've used for the past two or three years) don't sound much different from the RNP on just a track or two. BUT, when you start stacking tracks one atop another, and build up 8, 9, or 10 tracks, this is when you start to discern a real difference between a quality pre, and a mediocre one.

I moved up to the RNP recently because the Mackie just created too much "mid-range-haze" and phasing (almost like a flanger effect) when I stacked track after track.

I agree with you though Tradivo, if you're just looking for a pre to track a few tracks (like vocals). If you want a good pre for ALL your tracks, I believe you have to lay out a little bread. Unfortunately!
 
JLM said:
Thanks for the advice guys. I just went ahead and bought the RNP. I've heard too many good things about it to not spend the extra.
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Atta boy! I just bought mine too. Now I'm saving up for one of those little Joe Meek ThreeQ's to add some color.
 
I've got one final question about pre's. I'm worried that I didn't even really need to buy this RNP in the first place. I've got a decent Soundcraft Folio board that I've had for a couple of years and have been using it's pre's to do all my recording with. I know you guys probably don't know what the pre's on this board sound like but is it possible that they're poor enough to warrant this purchase of the RNP? Also, how do I run the RNP through my Soundcraft board (for monitoring purposes) so that I'm not using it's mic pre's over the RNP's signal? I'm really confused. I'm not sure that I even NEEDED the RNP. Any advice is most appreciated.
 
There is no "need" in recording there is just "gotta have more". :rolleyes:

The RNP is more detailed than the Folio, I have done that shootout. In fact, the DMP3 is about equal to the Folio preamps. Hope that helps you in comparing things.

I recommend skipping the board and going from the RNP to the soundcard; cleaner signal. This unless you need a hi-pass filter off the board to control whatever your recording.
 
Thanks Middleman. Yeah, that does help there with the comparison. My only problem with running straight to the soundcard with the RNP is that there would be no way to monitor the output of the RNP. How could I solve that problem?

I know it wouldn't be as clean of a signal but if I did decide to route the RNP to the board, how would I bypass my board's pre?
 
Your soundcard has stereo outs, run those to the mixer and monitor from there. Then you hear the music and RNP combined.
 
Thanks again Middleman. I'm a newb. Please bare with me. I know that I have two soundcards connected to my computer now. The one I use for recording is my MOTU card. It doesn't have any outputs at all. It's only got inputs. Now, the back of the MOTU has two outputs but that only puts out tracks that I've already got recorded.

I've got a Soundblaster card also on the computer. It's obviously got the stereo outs that you mentioned. Are these the outs you're talking about that I need to use?
 
The model of the MOTU is 24i. I'm also recording to Cubase VST if that matters.
 
Ok, the 24I is taking 24 analog line-in signals, no doubt from your mixer, into your soundcard by converting the various analog signals into tracks inside Cubase via the Motu PCI card.

You could just take two of your Motu inputs and connect the outputs of the RNP. Voila! You now have a clean straight signal into Cubase. However, if you are recording things with excessive bass that you don't want, you will want a roll off switch, either on your mic or your mixer. The RNP doesn't have this. In this case, you will want to run the RNP into a line-in on one of your mixer channels. The line-in usually bypasses the preamp and passes the signal along. If you also have a direct out on the same mixer channel the RNP is plugged into, take this line-out into the Motu. If you do not have direct outs on a per channel basis then you will need to take an aux-out on your mixer into the Motu. The fact that you are using a Motu 24i tells me you have direct channel lines out on your board. Yes? No?

You can monitor you RNP through the existing stereo out feed from Cubase along with the music. I assume this is OK. Most software allows you to do this and adjust for any latency between the original and playback voice. If you have high latency then this will not work. On to the final solution.

If your latency is too high to be usable, you can just run your soundcard back into two channels of the Motu and monitor the mix from the headphone jack on the front of the 24i. This assumes the RNP is also plugged into the back of the Motu. Now you will hear your voice real time and the music from the sound card for singing along to. But you must not allow the recorded voice track in Cubase into the stereo feed i.e soundcard out. Otherwise, you will hear the latency issue. Record the voice in, just set it up to not play back in Cubase. Not sure how this is done sorry to say, I use Sonar PE.

This last setup avoids latency all together. Hope that gets you started.
 
Thanks a ton Middleman. I'm going to work on this here in a bit now that I have more free time. Yes, I do have direct channel lines out on my board. I'll look in cubase and try to find out how I can monitor the live RNP input along with my recorded tracks. I've heard about latency issues but have never had to worry about it as of yet. If I have any problems though, I'll have your solutions right here. Thanks again for taking time to help me out. Hopefully, I can get this solved.
 
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