Please Help Delta66&SB midi->WAV Problems

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yaron_c

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Hi,
My DAW includes Delta66 , SB Live Value and Cubase
VST 3.7. My question is:

I want to record my midi files to WAV so I have 2 options:
1) To Set the Audio -> Inputs to Monitor Mixer, then record via cubase the wav while play the midi.
2) To record with the SB's mixer utility while play it via the cubase.
The results I got as follow:
Option 1 give me the ability to sync the wav with midi but the quality is not so good.
Option 2 give me better sound quality but I have to hit the record button on the SB mixer and then the "play" on cubase, so
the wav is not sync with the midi.
DO I MISS SOMETHING, because it not logic to me. Why option 1 give me poor sound quality, do I have to change my
configuration in order to get better results.
 
I'm not sure if I totally understand the process you are going through to get midi to wav, but I think what you may want to try is recording the midi sound as a midi part, ( you can do this while you are playing back your already recorded wav file). Sync the midi to the rest of your song. After you have everything synced to your liking, mute all tracks except your midi, & convert that part to a wav file. It will stay in sync with the rest of the song. (In cubase use the export audio function to create the mixdown) After you have converted it to a wav file you can enhance the sound with any fx you have in you arsenal.
 
Hi nattn,

Thanks for the reply. My problem is how to convert the midi part to WAV. As I mention before, if I do it with cubase I dont have Sync problems (only poor quality - WHY??).
If I mute all my other wav files and play only the midi parts I want to convert, and use SB's mixer (to record the wav) I have problems because I first hit the SB's "record" and then hit the "play" on cubase.
 
My problem is how to convert the midi part to WAV. As I mention before, if I do it with cubase I dont have Sync problems (only poor quality - WHY??)
Click to expand...

What do you mean by poor quality? Are your record levels too low? It should sound basically identical to the regular playback unless your levels are too low...
 
I'm not familiar with Cubase but you should be able to to do the following:

Connect the S/PDIF out of the SB live to the S/PDIF input of the Delta.

On the "Hardware Settings" page of the Delta control panel select "S/PDIF In" and 48khz sample rate, it should say "locked".

Set Cubase to record from the S/PDIF inputs of the Delta and start recording.
 
Hey yaron_c,


The levels of your midi parts may be a little lower than your audio parts intitially, but that is the nature of midi. Midi only goes up to a volume level of 127 I think which for me is usually considerably lower than I need the part to be. Now once I convert it to a wav file, I can bring the levels up to something more suitable for the arrangement.

This is how I convert a midi part to an audio part.

-Create your midi part
-Mute all tracks except the midi part that you want to convert
-Go to File>export>audio track
-Select whatever resolution and sample rate that suits your arrangement.
-The filename will default to mixdown.wav, but you can rename it to whatever you want.
-Voila. Your midi should be mixed down to an audio part now.

I usually save the midi part in my arrangement until I know I will no longer need it.

Treat the converted midi file (now a wav file) as any other wav. You can go into your VST channel settings and increase levels, EQ, add FX etc to your hearts content.

This is how i convert midi. There may be a more efficient way, but this method usually works fine for me.

I do make it a point to get all of my quantizing, volume levels, velocity, balance as close to what i want as i can before converting the file.

I hope this helps.
 
The levels of your midi parts may be a little lower than your audio parts intitially, but that is the nature of midi. Midi only goes up to a volume level of 127 I think which for me is usually considerably lower than I need the part to be.
Click to expand...

The nature of MIDI is to be lower than audio? What gives you that idea? MIDI volume of 0 represents the minimum, and 127 is max. How loud that really is overall is a function of how loud your MIDI instrument is turned up. If 127 is considerably lower than you need it to be, turn up the volume on your MIDI synth.

If you record it to audio at a low level, the loudest parts are not high compared to the inherent noise in the system. If you raise the level of the audio, you're raising the level of the noise with it. This was the point I was trying to make when I asked about what yaron_c meant by "low quality."

Uh... now I notice that you do say "I do make it a point to get all of my quantizing, volume levels, velocity, balance as close to what i want as i can before converting the file." So... never mind!
 
I have struggled for months trying to get decent MIDI timing from my SB Live. The way I recorded MIDI to WAV was set the SB Live's input device to "What U Hear" (on the SB's mixer), and then simply set the audio track's input in Cakewalk (or Cubase, for that matter), to SB Live audio in. I pushed record and it did the job.

It worked fine, but there was always one problem with it... Although the MIDI was generally in sync, its timing precision slightly varied all the time. Not that all the MIDI was out of sync, but *certain notes* were (especially when there were a bunch of them, as in drum fills). This way drum tracks always ended up sounding horrible (at times it sounded like someone without any sense of tempo was trying to play drums). I had to do 5-10 attempts each time I wanted to convert MIDI to audio just to get a *somewhat* decent result.

I was never able to eliminate the poor MIDI timing problem. I upgraded drivers, stripped down and switched operating systems, put the card in different slots on the motherboard. Still, MIDI timing sucked badly. I finally upgraded to Gigasampler, which does the job wonderfully and, at least to a human ear, is always 100% precise about timing.
 
Hi,

I had no access to the web for the last 3 days so I could not reply. Thanks for all the information.

1. AlChuck, you are probably right about the "record levels too low". I'm running my SB's output to mixer and then to delta's input. When I put more gain from mixer the quality improved.
2. I still don't understand how to use SB's mixer to record when play with cubase. It is two asynchronous operations: one for hit record on SB's mixer application and the other to hit play on cubase, so on the wav file a silence must exist in the first few seconds, so this is the Sync problems I talked about.
Any comment ??????
p.s. - sorry about my english
 
Yaron, you shouldn't have to press record on SB Live's mixer. It must be that you are confusing SB Live mixer with another application.

1. All you have to do in the SB Live's mixer (it's the fat black curvy window with brown outlines, if you have a late version) is to set the "Record from" (I think it is the one on the far right) option to "MIDI."

2. Don't use any external applications to record your audio. You should never have to import it as a file. Make a new audio track in Cubase itself and set its input to SB Live Audio In. Mark the track to be recorded onto.

3. Rewind Cubase to the beginning of the song and press Record. Your cubase will play MIDI and Audio and after the process is done (or whenever you stop it), in that track you will have your MIDI converted to Audio.

4. All you have to do now is to mute the original MIDI track and mix in the audio track.

Make sure that *all* your levels in the SB Live! mixer are at their possible maximums. This will make sure you don't lose hardly any quality.

Hope this helps.
 
Hi,

Thanks Dimmi for the reply, this is what I looked for. BUT !!! In cubase I don't have in Audio->Inputs the "SB Live Audio In" , I have:

(I don't recall the exact name cause I'm in work and not in front my PC in home )

Delta In 1/2, Delta In 3/4 , SPDIF , Monitor Mixer .
Do I have to go to Audio->System and from there to change the ASIO from M-Audio to ??? (I have two more options but neither is SB). If not, what can I do to be able to set SB's inputs to cubase.
 
Ooooh. I see now. This is something I had a problem with too. SB Live can only record at 48 khz/16 bit. Since you probably have your project properties set to something higher than that, Cubase won't let you use SB Live at the same time with Delta 66. Audio resolution for all sound cards that are used in one single project must be the same.

I am not sure how exactly it is done in Cubase, but you need to lower the project's audio resolution settings and enable SB Live inputs. It must be somewhere in the audio driver properties in Cubase. As I say again, sorry that I can't help you with exact titles since I have SONAR.

If you still can't get it to work, let me know. I am gonna dig my pile of disks and install Cubase. ;) I have SB Live myself and I was able to do what you are trying to do with my Darla 24 (a card comparable to Delta). Though, because of the 48/16 limitations and timing problems, I eventually abandoned SB Live as a sampler and switched to Gigasampler.
 
Hi,

Dimmi, after playing with cubase I think I found what I looked for.
In Audio->System in the ASIO driver selection there are 3 option (in my system) that one of them
is Multimedia driver (another one is the M-Audio). Usually my project is configured to M-Audio ASIO,
and in this configuration I do not have the SB's option in
Audio->Inputs.
When I change to Multimedia I can choose to have SB's inputs as one of the options in Audio->Input.
But this change is not recommended because it effect the setting of all the project. Anyway, I think this the only choice I have in cubase (true?). I guess I can live with this (I can save only the midi files as another project and convert the midi to wav and then import the wav to the original song).
 
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